What we do as goat breeders....

Southern by choice

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We test ours once per year for CAE and Johnnes. We don't do CL testing for a. the cost b. no indications that any have it. Most of the people we know don't test for CL, some do. Some just test for CAE and not Johnnes. We know one who tests for CAE, TB and Brucelliosis. Not sure why they test for TB and Brucelliosis from what I understand there hasn't been a case in livestock since the 40's. That breeder is also a large animal vet. I guess I need to ask him why?

We get fecals run at the state lab twice per year on every animal we have. So, we can provide that documentation. We like to do that because we have such low numbers we can show the parasite profile on the entire herd from an independent lab. We do other fecals ourselves as needed, mostly kids looking for coccidia. While we have never had a worm problem, we have had an issue the last two kidding seasons with coccidia. But, that is really more of an environmental factor than anything else it's been so wet, and overstocking which is our fault.

Most of the animals I sell are from referrals from our vet. Second, referrals from breeders we know who don't breed Nigerians, but standards. Third, referrals from other people who have bought animals from us, or a repeat sale to a previous buyer. Third, website. Fourth, Craigslist.

We know someone here in Wake County who got burned. Not going to say the breed other than they were standards from a supposedly reputable breeder in VA. These were their first goats. Bought 3 does from them. And then paid $1500 for the son of an ADGA National Champion from western part of NC as a herd sire. Does, had CL, gave it to the buck. He had them all put down.

That is why I don't understand the thinking behind not testing for CL. Not having lumps is not really a great indicator. For a little bit of $ it would have spared them thousands. :hu

I have been inspired
We have been doing this for 5 years
Going to do a thread on my farm journal on the entire " strange trip" it's been going from a "keeper" to a "breeder"
Been ups and downs, started with 3 does
We've had as many as 30
It would be informative to those just starting oit

Glad you have been inspired! :)
I think the first 3-4 years there is so much you learn and end up tweaking and adjusting and like you said "Ups and downs", lots of goats, reducing #'s etc I think it is VERY helpful for those starting out to understand sometimes your goals, needs, or focus may change but those experiences along the way are worth it!

That is what I am explaining in my part 2 update about our entire re-focus.
I just need to find the time! UGH
http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/southerns-long-overdue-update-part-1.29977/
 

babsbag

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Time...what is time? Why is it I am retired and still don't have time? I used to own a resale store for kid's stuff and my mom worked with me. I used to tell her I can explain things to you or I can just do it. I don't have time to do both. :)

I would love to keep a journal and document the building of my dairy, but I can either spend my time working on the dairy, or document it, I don't have time to do both.

We will patiently wait for part 2
 

OneFineAcre

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That is why I don't understand the thinking behind not testing for CL. Not having lumps is not really a great indicator. For a little bit of $ it would have spared them thousands. :hu



Glad you have been inspired! :)
I think the first 3-4 years there is so much you learn and end up tweaking and adjusting and like you said "Ups and downs", lots of goats, reducing #'s etc I think it is VERY helpful for those starting out to understand sometimes your goals, needs, or focus may change but those experiences along the way are worth it!

That is what I am explaining in my part 2 update about our entire re-focus.
I just need to find the time! UGH
http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/southerns-long-overdue-update-part-1.29977/

I think the biggest reason most don't test for CL is the inaccuracy of the blood testing. Not the same issue as false positives like the Johnnes tests, but false negatives.
Our vet didn't think it would be beneficial, and the vets we know who breed goats didn't either for that reason.

If someone doesn't want to buy a goat from me because I don't test for CL, that would be fine. I've managed to sell every one I've ever wanted to sell, and even some I wasn't even planning to sell. ;)
 
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Southern by choice

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Funny how 1/2 the vets don't recommend and 1/2 do.
2 out of the 3 I have do recommend it because at least if it is "positive" you can have an idea and monitor the titer levels.
My one vet has goats and the attitude is don't test if you aren't going to do anything about it anyway.
 

Hens and Roos

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So for those of you who also have chickens, how do the goats get along with them? How do you think goats would get along with peacocks? Could they share the same area provided the feed for the peacocks is out of goat range?
 

Southern by choice

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Don't know about peacocks :hu
Our Chickens, geese, ducks all live together with the goats.
Years ago some of our goats got lungworm...we treated them and that is about the time we added Geese and ducks. We have never had an issue since. We never find a snail in the whole area... we have lots of little streams too. Geese did the trick!
I was going to have the last of our geese slaughtered when I remembered how they solved that problem. Geese are staying.;)
Outside of those fields... unbelievable number of snails and slugs.
I believe the chickens also contribute to parasite management.

We do have an area that is hotwired so the chickens can go under and get to their feed without the goats getting to it.:)
 

OneFineAcre

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So for those of you who also have chickens, how do the goats get along with them? How do you think goats would get along with peacocks? Could they share the same area provided the feed for the peacocks is out of goat range?
Goats get along fine with chickens. I don't know about peacocks. Probably ok.
 

OneFineAcre

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Funny how 1/2 the vets don't recommend and 1/2 do.
2 out of the 3 I have do recommend it because at least if it is "positive" you can have an idea and monitor the titer levels.
My one vet has goats and the attitude is don't test if you aren't going to do anything about it anyway.

I don't know what that means about " not testing if you aren't going to do anything about it anyway"

I see what you mean about if it is positive you can monitor.

That's not the issue. The issue is the fact that it is not particularly reliable at identifying positive animals.

You said yourself, the CL testing is expensive and I still see no reason for the expense of just annually testing the herd if the test isn't accurate.

If you have CL you will have an abcess. If you have any abcess you test the pus on that animal.

Cocoa had an abcess on a salivary gland this year that we had to have vet sedate her to lance. Vet said it wasn't CL by the appearance of the pus and the odor. But, we still had that pus tested. We did that for our own peace of mind, not for sales purposes.
 

Southern by choice

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If you have CL you will have an abcess. If you have any abcess you test the pus on that animal.

INTERNAL CL may never show lumps externally.
However internal CL can be passed on to all other animals in the herd. Much depends on where those internal "lumps" are. That is NOT my OPINION, comes from the vets at UCDavis.

I agree the testing is not the greatest but it's all we've got and it should be a concern to any dairy goat breeder as there is suspicion that it can affect humans. Hopefully better testing will be developed.

Some time ago I posted about the vet from UC Davis that had a test group. 3% of the animals with titers of 1:16 had NO LUMPS yet at time of slaughter were found to have internal CL .

We know someone that bought a $1500 buck on the condition the animal test negative. Blood was drawn sent out and while awaiting the results the buck developed a large lump. It did test positive for CL buck was sent on it's way of course but it also had come from a breeder that said we've never had a lump.

Monitoring one's herd is individual. To each his own.
 

OneFineAcre

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INTERNAL CL may never show lumps externally.
However internal CL can be passed on to all other animals in the herd. Much depends on where those internal "lumps" are. That is NOT my OPINION, comes from the vets at UCDavis.

I agree the testing is not the greatest but it's all we've got and it should be a concern to any dairy goat breeder as there is suspicion that it can affect humans. Hopefully better testing will be developed.

Some time ago I posted about the vet from UC Davis that had a test group. 3% of the animals with titers of 1:16 had NO LUMPS yet at time of slaughter were found to have internal CL .

We know someone that bought a $1500 buck on the condition the animal test negative. Blood was drawn sent out and while awaiting the results the buck developed a large lump. It did test positive for CL buck was sent on it's way of course but it also had come from a breeder that said we've never had a lump.

Monitoring one's herd is individual. To each his own.

I guess this is just one of those things that you and I will have to agree to disagree on.

You agree the testing isn't the greatest but you think you should still do it. I don't. Pretty black and white.

With the current blood test animals can test negative and still have CL i.e. false negative. I think false negatives are much more troublesome than false positives.

You are right, we each have to do what we think is best. We certainly try to be responsible. But, I can't justify the expense when no one that I know besides you does this testing, and 3 vets tell me to not waste the money.

Again, it would be perfectly fine if someone did not want to purchase an animal from me because I don't test for CL. I would wish them good luck. That was the original topic of the thread. I was just trying to add to the topic with what we do as a breeder regarding trying to provide some assurance to potential goat buyers as to herd health. I was not making a statement that I was right or wrong with what we do.
 
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