What we do as goat breeders....

Hens and Roos

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I think it's great that different ideas and thoughts are being shared, it helps give insight into possibilities and that there is no one way to do things. thanks
 

babsbag

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I test for CL since I live in CA it doesn't cost much. I have two goats that show a positive titer, but neither have had lumps and one titer actually went down. They tested at 1:16 and 1:32. The next time I tested, two years later, they were both 1:16.

When I first tested they told me that anything over 1:8 was considered positive. In 2012 UC Davis published the article below in the CAHFS Connection so now I don't know if my goats have CL or not. Can they be exposed and have the antibodies and yet not be a carrier or be considered positive? :idunno It seems that it is any bodies guess. I have many many off spring from those original 2 does and they all test <1:8 so until I see an abscess I am going with the " I don't have CL attitude", not much else I can do. If the titers go up then I guess I will have to reevaluate the situation.

So what the article is telling us non statistical geeks is that when using the SHI test 87% of the positive diagnosis are correct and 80% of the negative diagnosis are correct. So 13% could have false positive and 20% a false negative.

Caseous Lymphadenitis (CL) diagnostics

Caseous Lymphadenitis, CL, caused by Corynebacterium pseudotuberculosis, can present a diagnostic
challenge in sheep and goats. Abscess material collected via syringe or surgical drainage (external abscesses) or at necropsy (internal abscesses) can be submitted for bacterial culture.

Serum samples are tested for CL antibodies with a synergistic hemolysin inhibition (SHI) test. CL abscesses, particularly external ones, can be very effectively protected from the animal’s immune

system, resulting in low SHI titers. A 2-fold rise in paired serum samples taken 3-4 weeks apart indicate recent infection.

Titers ≥1:256 are rarely seen in animals without internal abscess. Titers
1:8 to 1:128 can be found in both infected and uninfected animals; however, the higher the

titer, the more likely an animal is infected. For diagnosis of internal abscess, the SHI test has a sensitivity

of about 87% and a specificity of about 80%.
 

Southern by choice

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You are more than welcome to disagree but INTERNAL CL is not an opinion.

Nobody but us tests for CL? really? Just us? seriously?

The thread is "what WE do as goat breeders” not “what do you do as a goat breeder”
I am glad you are inspired to do your own thread, input on threads is wonderful.
However your combativeness is unnecessary. This is part of our herd management.
If you do not feel it is necessary in your herd management, than so be it. I see no need for you to get so defensive about a practice that you don't subscribe to.

There are many vets out there and each one has their own ideas and opinions on any given matter. All may be equally good vets but have differing opinions.
~Some will simply not band a goat, they only cut.
~Some will not wether til 16 weeks. Some 20 weeks, some 2 days-2 weeks.
~Some will not disbud with out sedation or nerve block, some feel that method is dangerous.
~Some believe testing is unnecessary, some do not.
~Some vets think goats should be vaccinated for blackleg. Some do not.
The list goes on.

It is up to us to look at what WE believe to be best for our herd. I certainly do not always see eye to eye with any of our vets yet I have enough relationship with them to respect their input, and they respect that I do not always agree.
Some nod and do whatever their vet says, some will question.
Some will take the time and look at the method, research, pro's and con's. Etc and determine whether it benefits their herd or not.
Johnes testing by serum is the not the most accurate way to test but many still do it.
Johnes testing isn't even recommended til 18 months of age yet most people test way earlier.
I have many years in human medicine and vet medicine. I am not a doctor or a vet but have enough experience to evaluate a given matter and decide what is best for me and my animals. There are times vets are wrong. Years ago a drug had come out for canines, I refused it based on the fact there were not enough trials run and not good enough data, the vet (new vet I was using) was furious and reminded me "HE" was the vet. etc- Less than one year later the drug was pulled because of the number of deaths it had caused.:\ A vet I worked with many years ago misdiagnosed an ear issue, in private I told him he was wrong- LOL- we had a bet for lunch- I said it was scabies (Sarcoptes scabei) he said NO WAY!
I ran the slide- :lol: I got a free lunch! I had a vet tell me my 19 week old pup had Pyometra, I knew she was wrong. Perhaps though I should heave just listened and had her uterus ripped out.
Maybe when my goat got listeria and was mis-diagnosed by our first vet I should have not sought a second opinion.
As layman we rely on our vets but vets are human and are fallible.
It is our responsibility to receive their input, look at all the info and ultimately do what WE feel is best. The vet you show with is a vet we recommend to people in that region, we know he is a really good vet, but I can still disagree.

We are not hobbyist.
We LIVE off of our farm.
As a “homesteader” our management and goals may be different than another persons.
I still have a responsibility to do all I can to ensure I have a healthy herd and kids leaving my farm are healthy.

Compared to other tests CL is more expensive.
As far as cost... a person could test 20 goats for the cost of approximately the price of one kid @ $300. Depending on the average price of a kid. @ $250 a kid that would be 17 goats tested. If out of those 17-20 goats and 10 kid, with an average of twins- 20 kids at $250 each, well that is $5000. That is 5% of revenue brought in by kids alone, IMO that is rather an insignificant expense.

Like all other testing it is just a "tool" used for monitoring our herd. :)
 

OneFineAcre

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No, I was not being defensive or combative at all.
It does seem to upset you if I disagree with you though. And this isn't the first time I've seen this. In fact, it seems like almost everything I say you take exception to, unless of course I'm complimenting your new animals.
Even though I state that I'm not saying that I'm right or wrong, you seem to have a need to prove that I am in fact wrong. And that's not the first time you have stated in a condescending fashion that you are not a "hobbyist", that you make a living off of your "farm"
But, you are right this was your thread about what you do.
Perhaps it would be best if I just not disagree with you going forward. That way you can spend less time arguing with me and have more time to work on your farm. :thumbsup
 
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Hens and Roos

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okay, there is talk about having loose minerals available for the goats, is this a mix or individual minerals that are bought separate and put out in separate piles?
 

Southern by choice

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Oops- meant to add there are blocks also we don't use them as they can wear teeth down, as so we've been told... BUT we have heard of "softer" blocks. There are also blocks that may have more copper or selenium etc. Many with meat goats put blocks out. I am concerned about the high level of salt.
No all too familiar with blocks, many report great success with them though.
 

Hens and Roos

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Has anyone had issues with more fleas, mites and such this year on their animals? I know our dogs have been more itchy this year and we aren't the only ones it seem dealing with this issue.
 

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