Doe Not Accepting?

Ridgetop said:

Congratulations on not ending up in counseling over this! LOL I ADMIRE YOUR COMMITTMENT! Are all of us as animal owners complete masochists? No, because then we wouldn't enjoy the tremendous lift when things finally go right! I am very excited to hear that you are having better luck this year and can't wait to hear that you have returned to the top breeder spot! GO Samanthadrawz!!!
This is a really wonderful thing to add to my store of rabbit husbandry I have learned over the years by listening to other breeders. I am going to try it, especially since I have to take extra vitamin D even though I am outside a great deal. Over the past several years they have found that most women are deficient in vita D. Maybe it applies to all females in all species?

Click to expand...

thank you and YES! it is all a ton of work and the moment you quit enjoying it, you should get out before it is too late LOL

I think bearing children drains females in general and I agree full heartedly what you said about the deficiency. I also feel like we are not getting all we used to from the foods we ingest and believe that goes for all animals as well. The nutrients just aren't going as far as they used to. Sigh...

Ridgetop said:

Over the past several years they have found that most women are deficient in vita D. Maybe it applies to all females in all species?

Click to expand...

Probably not. What we call vitamin D is actually a hormone that the skin produces when exposed to sunlight. We aren't meant to consume it, our bodies are supposed to make it. Some of the reasons that a lot of people don't have enough are:

1) An awful lot of us spend most of our time indoors
2) Concern over skin cancer risk leads a lot of us to cover up and slather on the sunscreen when we do go outside.
3) A lot of us are, um, "past a certain age," and bodies of older folks just don't do things as well as they used to; that includes producing vitamin D.

I've never before heard of a vitamin D deficiency being implicated specifically in reproductive issues. Vitamin D plays a role in the absorption and utilization of certain minerals (Calcium being the best known; that's why they started adding it to milk), but it is also involved in immune function. I suppose that a body that isn't working as it should in other ways might not be very fertile, too; that does make sense.

You have to be very careful with Vitamin D supplementation, because it can be toxic in large doses. In fact, there is a type of rat poison that uses Vitamin D as its active ingredient. Because rats generally live rather secretive lives in dark tunnels and other dimly-lit places, their bodies evolved to hang onto vitamin D tenaciously. A lethal dose for a rat is relatively small. Animals like cats and dogs, which spend a good bit of their time in bright sunlight, tend to excrete excess vitamin D relatively easily, so secondary poisoning from consuming rats that died of a vitamin D overdose is unlikely.

Offhand, I'd think a rabbit's need for supplemental vitamin D would be minuscule. Rabbits are crepuscular, so they wouldn't be active during the brightest part of the day; I imagine a life normally lived in burrows and other area of relative cover would create an animal with a fairly efficient ability to use vitamin D. Indirect sunlight should be enough to give the domestic rabbit the ability to produce all the Vitamin D that it needs. However, since sunlight can fade a rabbit's coat, and sun-fading can cost you on a show table, I can see that protecting potential show rabbits from the effects of the weather could potentially prevent them from getting enough natural sunlight to make as much vitamin D as they need.

Bunnylady said:

Probably not. What we call vitamin D is actually a hormone that the skin produces when exposed to sunlight. We aren't meant to consume it, our bodies are supposed to make it. Some of the reasons that a lot of people don't have enough are:

1) An awful lot of us spend most of our time indoors
2) Concern over skin cancer risk leads a lot of us to cover up and slather on the sunscreen when we do go outside.
3) A lot of us are, um, "past a certain age," and bodies of older folks just don't do things as well as they used to; that includes producing vitamin D.

I've never before heard of a vitamin D deficiency being implicated specifically in reproductive issues. Vitamin D plays a role in the absorption and utilization of certain minerals (Calcium being the best known; that's why they started adding it to milk), but it is also involved in immune function. I suppose that a body that isn't working as it should in other ways might not be very fertile, too; that does make sense.

You have to be very careful with Vitamin D supplementation, because it can be toxic in large doses. In fact, there is a type of rat poison that uses Vitamin D as its active ingredient. Because rats generally live rather secretive lives in dark tunnels and other dimly-lit places, their bodies evolved to hang onto vitamin D tenaciously. A lethal dose for a rat is relatively small. Animals like cats and dogs, which spend a good bit of their time in bright sunlight, tend to excrete excess vitamin D relatively easily, so secondary poisoning from consuming rats that died of a vitamin D overdose is unlikely.

Offhand, I'd think a rabbit's need for supplemental vitamin D would be minuscule. Rabbits are crepuscular, so they wouldn't be active during the brightest part of the day; I imagine a life normally lived in burrows and other area of relative cover would create an animal with a fairly efficient ability to use vitamin D. Indirect sunlight should be enough to give the domestic rabbit the ability to produce all the Vitamin D that it needs. However, since sunlight can fade a rabbit's coat, and sun-fading can cost you on a show table, I can see that protecting potential show rabbits from the effects of the weather could potentially prevent them from getting enough natural sunlight to make as much vitamin D as they need.

Click to expand...

Yes I did say that too much of it could cause issues. You have to be careful but in using it in small quantities and only when breeding or in certain parts of the year it has proved safe for mine as well as multiple others in my area (Northern Minnesota). Since this particular supplement is not just Vit D there is not as high of a concentration of it as well. The calcium is also good for them. Supplementing is not for everyone but it certainly has proved to work well here. I got my nicest and biggest babies born with it. Not to mention highest in birth numbers and successfully raised babies from each doe.

I do know mine are in a barn with two large windows but they are on the side and in a low area so light does not reach most of the rabbits in my barn.

Not all manufacturers of rabbit food list the vitamin D content of their feed (for example, Purina doesn't), but the recommendation is about 800 - 1000 IU/kg, and most feeds that report on vitamin D content fall in that range. Assuming that it gets distributed evenly through the bag, adding Osteo-Form SA at the rate you have given (2 scoops/50 lb. bag) raises the vitamin D level of the feed by about 12 IU/kg. That isn't a significant increase, which is probably just as well, since a level of 2000 IU/kg is enough to cause calcification of the muscles and other soft tissues. But the increase is so small, it does make one wonder - are the differences you have seen really linked to the vitamin D, or might it be something else?

Bunnylady how do you deal with reluctant does? I recently bought a new doe who has had 2 litters prior for othe people And she just lays there.... buck tries... I try to hold up her rear but no connection. Her vulva looks pink. Have tried in his cage (she puts her butt to the corner) & the table. Buck has 1 litter and rebreed that doe about a month ago.

If this doe has been allowed a break since her last litter, she may have gotten a bit fat. Excess body fat can sort of damp down the hormonal fluctuations of the normal reproductive cycle. Netherland Dwarf does are notorious for this - you get a litter or two, take her out of production because of hot weather, and you may never get her to breed again.

Generally speaking, pink isn't a dark enough color; the color you are looking for is a bright cherry red. I have had some does that never seem to get darker than a deep rose color, so you kind of need to know the doe to figure out what is normal for her. I don't think I have ever seen a doe that was showing bright red refuse a buck. I had one amazon princess that had to fight with a buck for a bit before she'd agree to breed (had to know he was macho enough, I guess), but I wouldn't waste the buck's time or mine on a doe that was only pink.

If I have a doe that seems ready but just won't breed, I cage her next to the buck, and keep an eye on her. If I see her chinning things in her cage, I'll try her then - that can be a signal that a doe is "in the mood." If a doe that you know can't be pregnant pulls some fur, that is a pretty good indicator that she should be ready. If a doe lifts when you pet her, well, they can't get much more obvious than that!

I have used supplemental lighting during winter months, but not often enough to be sure that it works. Some folks may tell you that their rabbits breed year-round, but I have noticed that mine are often much easier to breed during the Spring months; you almost can't miss then.

When all else fails, I have taken 3 or 4 (usually older) does and put them together in a large cage with a buck. I only do this with an older buck, one that most likely won't aggravate a doe to the point that she will counter attack. Having several does helps to spread his attention around enough to offset that possibility too. I watch the new colony closely because not all does will get along; anyone that seems to be too aggressive with the others gets removed. It's rather risky, but letting the buck catch the doe in due course has gotten does bred when they just won't work otherwise. Someone gave me a New Zealand White doe that they hadn't been able to breed, and nor had her original owner. I tried once or twice the usual way, then, when she was about 3 years old, I put her into a colony. All the other does in that group were no longer reproductively viable, but that one still was.

Reread this again.... still no luck with my lilac vlop... starting lights. Did get 2 drops with a different buck. But no bunnies.

I use lights in my barn during the winter. It does help, but I've been having this breeding problem with 2 of my 7 does. I'll check the problem girl's vulva. Thanks for all these good tips!

Still no luck on our end with a successful breeding. These darn bunnies are driving me crazy! My best friend just got rabbits and bam..she had babies a few days ago. I'm just sitting here with a sour look thinking "These animals just want to test my patience."

So I have this English Spot doe who hates me, the buck, and life in general. I've tried everything to get her bred to my buck and I'm running out of ideas. All I want is one good litter so I can keep one of the does from said litter. I have no attachment to this doe and would have sold her already if I hadn't been trying for at least one more litter. Any ideas on how I can get her to be more receptive? I've had her for almost a year now, and have tried plenty of times to get her bred, but she won't. The buck has no problems with her. He would be more than happy to help me with my problem, but she hates him.