Southern by Choice's Teaching Moments- Indoor LGD! Badger

Well haven't been able to move Silver yet but he did go in isolation pen for 2 days. Moved him today to the field he has been in... I had to walk him through the buckling area first- his momma Callie was in there.

Well he was spun up and ready to RUN and get his energy out so as we went through the pen he goes to run to the second gate...
Yeah- CALLIE! Callie was not having him run anywhere... she ran him down grabbed his back leg to let him know... uh uh!
Callie is awesome!
Let him out the the field... he goes to start running but is heading right for the cluster of goats eating happily. I yelled out ah ah- he slowed and walked through and then after making his way he took off. All the pups were raring to play but I had also let Callie in!
Callie was right on him every step of the way - grabbed his back legs... then neck to neck letting out a growl.
Smart puppy knows not to do anything his momma doesn't like.
Once the pups mature a bit then the momma will correct- no more real protection now it's all about the goats again.

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On a side note- we have had a few squabbles lately with the boys.
Chunk however will get in there and let the dogs know - NOT ON MY TURF! Not one pup will challenge Chunk.
Chunk is my super dog! I love everything about him! He is always on guard... watching watching watching. Dependent on no-one.
Blue is very different dog but I see he strives to be like Chunk in some ways. We had visitors today here are the boys watching at the wire. Look at my baby Chunk!
After a few minutes Not Leo moved back with the goats... others stayed close by... then Chunk once he knew I was safe went to the far side and set up position. Blue - my babylove- stayed on the wire but fell asleep in the sun! Pete stayed put.
Left to Right
Not Leo (standing), Blue, Chunk (pyr- 19 months), Pete


Not Leo-

Posted a little about this on my journal but wanted to expand a little. As I thought about it more it could be helpful to a newbie....

I was up early and all was still...a little before 6 am I heard squealing tires then BOOM!
Grabbed flashlight... got DD & DH and headed out... ANOTHER car in the trees. Guy was ok. Car totaled. 2nd car in less then a month.
Just glad he wasn't dead. Several people have died across the road and I am just glad that each time we go out the person has been alive.

Dogs of course went nuts... calmed down once we were out there.
It was still dark out when the accident occurred. Eventually someone picked up the guy but the car was still out there. Knew that IF any police could find the location it would be at least an hour or two.

LOL- as I guessed BLUE decided the car in the trees was something too close to his field... he has gone through the barn over the fencing and is now on "guard" out there.
Oh Blue.
Smart dogs can be a PITB sometimes.

We have been locking the goats in the barn for a few days (night only)... dogs are NOT in the barn but on the unfinished other side - so there is shelter under roof and it is closed on 3 sides... they sleep out in the field anyway usually...

What I did not know was that I guess PT (Pete) somehow got into the barn and stayed with the goats at o dark thirty when the car wrecked. He was calmly laying with the goats when we went back out to hay around 8 or so.

First off I am impressed. Sad, Callie won't be bred again... (well probably not) as these truly are remarkable dogs in this litter. I am pleased with everyone of them.

Second - this does somewhat present a bit of an issue with the fact that I have ALWAYS expected my dogs to stay exactly where I put them... now keep in mind that this field is generally open so dogs DO see this as all one field. They have never gone into any other field. I have thought about this a good deal. I have opted to not correct or scold them because they are doing exactly what a LGD is SUPPOSE to do. Get to wherever whenever they feel they need to be to do their job.

Blue will NOT be separated from the goats if he feels he "needs" to be there. Last week he broke out some boards ( screwed in boards-not nailed) to get to the goats.

This "teaching moment" is really trying to show how sometimes we need to remember and be thoughtful... we get LGD's TO THINK for themselves and to do a job... even when it annoys us...

Is the dog doing it's job? (GOOD)
Is the dog just going where it wants because it won't stay where it needs to? (BAD)

For newbies these are important observations to make. The dog that is doing it's job is always going to get to where they need to be.

One thing we do with EVERYdog starting from puppyhood is make sure from time to time we put them in a "kennel" (not really a kennel...just a small space like a quarantine run or lot etc) so they learn that if they are penned to STAY there and none of this crazy frantic stupid panic scratching, digging, climbing, going crazy stuff that so many dogs do. Encourages a more stable, confident dog.

I kept Blue for a reason. He is alot of dog...and he is just like his mother Callie... stubborn with a will that is amazing but I can see he is already dependable.

Got a coyote this am ... going to get it out there for the dogs to see.

Very pleased with the pups... they will be one on Jan 2!
Very glad I kept so many back for started dogs. I have really enjoyed it.
Since this is "teaching moments" I like to share the great, the good, the bad, and the ugly!

As many of you have already read "Silver" has been the slowest to mature. He is the forever puppy. Smart, loves the little ones, loves to play. He is our micro-manager and really wants "little" goats barred up in the barn. In the end I DID NOT move him. I decided that he will do best by learning the hard way.

Since he doesn't do this with the big goats it didn't make sense to move him with all big goats or he may never learn.

So this is where I am with Silver- he loves to play and has always, if you've followed the pups the past year, he was the one that would entice the other dogs and get them to run and take him down.

Well.... poor boy... his brothers are very grown up and guardy and they are more into their job so this slowly has become more of an irritation to the others.
Last week Pete and Not Leo just flat out took him down. It got ugly. Callie will take him down but she is his mom, so she is a little easier on him. His brothers were not. Pete and Not Leo are an incredible team, very powerful and very serious.
I like this team a they are confident- they are leaving for their new farm this month. I just hope they can adjust to the different livestock- if not they will come back.

So since Silver was"put in his place" he has been a bit mopey.
Unusual for siblings to do this... but they did. It is as if they have let him know- GROW UP and do your JOB.

Silver does do a good job he patrols and he watches but is immature. I would like to see him with a dominant female watcher.

The pups really LOVE their goats. Chunk has been a great mentor.
Certain goats have their favorite dogs. It is sweet.
Here are some pics.

My BABY BLUE!

Silver up front, Not Leo back, Chunk right

Silver- he is sad and a little mopey- No one will play- he is being forced to grow up

Pete (PT)

Not Leo- always very close to his goats

Chunk, Silver, Not Leo, Callie laying with goats

These two are on the other side of the goats sitting on the fence
Blue and Pete

Ruby was curious as to what we were doing (cleaning out the apartment) so she came over- Not Leo followed and stayed close.
ALL the dogs LOVE RUBY!

Littlest DD and Blue

DD with Pete - I love how he leans in



What a joy our goats and dogs are!

Cuteness! Aww, Silver! It's okay buddy, your brothers still love you, they just don't want to play!

Wow, how Pocket Toli has changed! It seems like most of the pups got the Toli long legs and thin build but more of a Pyr head. None of them seem as "bulky" as the Pyrs through their bodies. Great dogs! I sure love mine!

Latestarter said:

Wow, how Pocket Toli has changed! It seems like most of the pups got the Toli long legs and thin build but more of a Pyr head. None of them seem as "bulky" as the Pyrs through their bodies. Great dogs! I sure love mine!

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Yeah, we need some more pics of "mine" @Latestarter! You know it is absolutely required! Really though, we'd love to see pics of Mel too! Maybe we won't steal Southern's thread (not that she'd mind), but Mel could use his own thread if you don't have a journal...

Here's Mel as of 1/2 hour ago. We have had a little snow overnight:


As I was taking this pic, my neighbor is outside to shovel and Mel heard him so he's letting me know.


He's a good dog

AW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So happy you posted pics! I LOVE his face ... he has more of the block (daddy's) head. They are all very Toli in structure except Simba (Green) and Pete (PT) PT is very large! VERY. Him and Not Leo have more bulk.... His girth (Mels) is a real mix! "Spot" was very pyr like.

As you know I LOVED that pup- he was one of "my" picks.

A "little" snow that would be what we get for the year!
Dogs love the snow and the cold... I bet Mel is happy with the cold.

Most of the dogs got their daddy's height (Callie is tall for a female)... we had 2 "short stuffs" - By maturity they should still end up at 32-33" -ultimately as long as they can do their job that is what counts.

So glad you two love each other. I love their independence!
Stubbornness! Arrogance! Yet they love their love!

How is Mel coming along with "I am focused" right now?
Yesterday we had some weird happening on the far end of the field... must have been down the highway- don't know what it was but all the dogs were going nuts- that "serious I'm on the job" bark... 2 stayed on the corner and 3 ran the fencelines and moved the goats. It was so intense I headed out and went into the field... dogs saw me and could care less- it was the "I've got a job to do- don't have time to say hi" . Happened 3 different times, don't know if it was a stray do (unusual for here) or fox, deer
I like that their concentration doesn't get broken.

He seems to have his "Just so you know I'm here, and maybe can see you" barking and then there's the "I see you CLEARLY and you're closer than I want you" barking. For the former, I normally just leave it be and don't go out. After 15-20 minutes he'll simmer down and continue about his day (my night). For the latter, I generally go out to see what's causing the commotion. When I do go out, he'll normally come around the corner to greet me then run back to the fence to focus back on whatever it was that set him off... which most of the time I can't see or hear. I think a lot of it is when a bunch of the neighbor's dogs light off at the fox or a coyote down the road, he gets involved. I believe that's the only reason he'll come back around the corner to get me... the "issue" isn't really close, or maybe he can't even see it but hears/smells it. I don't think it's a case of him breaking focus so much as I am his focus and he's guarding me. His favorite spot to watch from is right where the pictures were taken... between the house and garage.

The past week he's taken to doing a wolf like howl... kinda like some dogs do at fire engine sirens... Only in the middle of the night, and usually during the middle of a barking episode. Maybe he's lamenting the lack of a partner?

He doesn't mind the snow or cold at all. When I bring him in, he has ice balls on the tips of some of his fur, but he's dry underneath and plenty warm even if cold on the outside to touch. He spent all night last night (every night) outside and was just fine this morning. He'll go around to the side of the house and lay down in a snow drift... Or he'll crash on a piece of carpeting laid down right outside the back door. I'd take a picture, but as soon as I open a door, he's up and moving.

In a pic above, you said you like when they lean in while walking beside you. Mel does more than just "lean"... he actually pushes like he's trying to guide me. Some times he'll actually turn in front of me and block my progress and I have to push him aside or go around him. Not quite sure what that's all about as I've never had a dog do that...

He'll come up to me when he wants attention and put both paws up and sit on his haunches so I can scratch his chest and shoulders as well as his hocks and paws. He loves to roll over on his side and get a belly scratch as well if he's laying down and I'm walking past. I have to be careful he doesn't trip me as he'll sometimes throw one of those big paws of his out to catch my leg as I go by... Next time my fave oldest daughter comes over I really need to get her to use my camera and get some pictures of Mel and I and even with Mystie in the pics for size comparison. She walks right under him now with no issue at all and she's a larger sized female Golden retriever...

Latestarter said:

I don't think it's a case of him breaking focus so much as I am his focus and he's guarding me. His favorite spot to watch from is right where the pictures were taken... between the house and garage.

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Your right, there isn't a serious enough issue- you'll see one day what I mean... he will not hear you, mind you, or pay attention when he zero's in a serious issue. It will be all business.

Latestarter said:

After 15-20 minutes he'll simmer down

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Sometimes if I think they are going on a little too long about "nothing" I will flick the porch light on/off and they stop immediately. Kind of our signal. Works for us. Young dogs do need to learn to bark but like you and most- I don't want incessant barking. They learn so quick.

Latestarter said:

The past week he's taken to doing a wolf like howl... kinda like some dogs do at fire engine sirens... Only in the middle of the night, and usually during the middle of a barking episode. Maybe he's lamenting the lack of a partner?

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LOL- Sorry maybe I didn't warn you of that... The toli side... the pyrs do it some but LOL I almost video'd it the other night. So funny. I asked the pups "are you trying to call wolves or coyotes in or what?" I think sometimes they ware wanting to draw in to have some fun! He isn't doing it out of lonliness- he does it because he can.

Latestarter said:

He doesn't mind the snow or cold at all.

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The boys and all the dogs were loving the cooler weather coming in but last week we were in the 70's again! Poor dogs started blowing coat again. Last year when we were in single digits all the dogs loved it! Even the pups!

Latestarter said:

Some times he'll actually turn in front of me and block my progress and I have to push him aside or go around him. Not quite sure what that's all about as I've never had a dog do that...

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Ours only block us if they know there is a threat and they want us to stay back... only happened a few times.... having younger tinier people here (my little ones) the dogs know better than to lean too hard, they are very in tune to it. Now with me if I am standing "Blue"- my boy, he will lean on me... I tell him sometimes, "I'm gonna move and you're gonna fall over" LOL He slinks his head back like Callie does and I move and he falls over and gives the look "ok love me". Sometimes they will stand in front of us because they want the loving and have decided we were not done yet. BRATS!

Latestarter said:

He'll come up to me when he wants attention and put both paws up and sit on his haunches so I can scratch his chest and shoulders as well as his hocks and paws.

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I this! That is his daddy "D". "D" has always done the bunny puppy and it is my favorite- Chunk does it too! "D" is Chunk's uncle. To me it has always been a special thing. It is so gentle too. That made my day!

Latestarter said:

I have to be careful he doesn't trip me as he'll sometimes throw one of those big paws of his out to catch my leg as I go by...

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Oh gosh- Callie Callie Callie... those long legs come out of nowhere and push on you too! Does he do the push on you?
Some of the pyrs will throw a leg but it is mostly Callie, her pups (most of them) do the same thing! Callie is slinky and can twist and contort her body in the weirdest seemingly impossible ways! Blue, Silver, Tiggs, Bernard all do this but Blue is identical to his mom.

Latestarter said:

I really need to get her to use my camera and get some pictures of Mel and I and even with Mystie in the pics for size comparison.

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That would be cool! I love to see pics! Funny how the pics really never show their structure well....

Latestarter said:

She walks right under him now

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Comparison photos are always funny ... I do like big dogs and guardians need size. Starting to see dogs 23-25" tall around here and I just don't get it... why are people breeding such tiny guardians
Leo's owners sent this... The black Aussie is about 55 lbs, the merle is a mini so smaller but Leo is a monster- lanky long and tall but starting to get his mass.



I love Mel's head! His chest looks good too! He has another year of growing and filling out ... 2 more before he is finished growing.
Getting ready to run a round of dewormer on ours.
How does Mel do with the chickens? I know you pen yours but does he ever go in the pen with you?

One of the pups- "Bernard" lives with his goat herd but 2x the owner went out and found him in the chicken field... apparently he goes over a gate across the yard goes over another gate to get in with the chickens... then he waits for her to put him back in his goat field. He doesn't kill the chickens or anything like that- he was going there because they have had something trying to get to the chickens. They lock the chickens up at night but had seen a fox attempting to get in... so they know there is a predator attempting to get to them and have seen scratch marks on the door of the coop. So Bernard decided the chickens need protected too. I guess by the time he gets there the fox is gone. Still not bad for a young dog and shows that he really wants to guard everything. He does not like the chickens in the goat field though. LOL