Caucasian Ovcharka Breeder Info.

Maine0311

Just born
Joined
Feb 4, 2016
Messages
8
Reaction score
2
Points
8
I have been researching and following all of the post's with regards to the most reputable breeders in the US for Caucasian Ovcharka's (CO's). I have also read everything posted on the site with regards to CO's. I finally became a member today. I have researched for a year and My wife and I are ready to purchase a caucasian. I have talked with some of the breeders here in the US. I have tried to find reviews on the breeders and have, as I said above, talked with a few. I am very skeptical about backyard breeders and for the amount of money these individuals ask for a puppy are pricey. I am more than willing to spend the money on a fantastic animal. I am not willing to deal with and/or pay for an animal that comes from a less than reputable breeder. I have looked into and talked to a few of the breeder I CAN FIND. I understand that some may not be online and that is tough for me as I do not know where to go other than online since we do not have any breeders up this way (Maine). the sites I have visited over the past year (dozens of times) are below:

www.courageouscaucasians.com
www.rockhillcaucasians.com

www.estalfacaucasian.com
www.esquirecaucasians.com
www.galdondog.com (non-US, Bulgaria. I am hesitant with going outside of the US, but wasn't sure if anyone had any insight with them)
www.vbocaucasian.com (non-US,Voronezh, Russia...Same as above with going outside the US, but they seem to be legit)

I know that there are so many things that go into this and I hope someone can help. I have only been able to speak with the owners/breeders of the sites I have visited. Bias is (most of the time) going to for THEIR dogs. I get this, but I was wondering if you would be willing to shed some light on what breeders you would go with or recommend. I am going to be calling on most of these sites in the next few days.
 

Maine0311

Just born
Joined
Feb 4, 2016
Messages
8
Reaction score
2
Points
8
I forgot to mention that the threads and other conversations i have followed are closed. So I decided to post a new one in hopes that someone could shed some light on my questions. Grazer (Member) if you are still on I would love to hear your thoughts
 

Latestarter

Novice; "Practicing" Animal Husbandry
Golden Herd Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2014
Messages
11,384
Reaction score
17,481
Points
623
Location
NE Texas
Greetings @Maine0311 from the front range in Colorado. :frow Spent many years up there while stationed at Brunswick Naval Air Station, which I understand no longer exists... I would caution you on purchasing a dog from overseas for a number of reasons. The first being that the dogs they export are often the ones that they themselves would NOT keep or breed... They export their "trash". The second being the expense... unless you've won a lottery or something. the third being the time and energy investment required. You sound like a very knowledgeable and serious purchaser, so like me, it would probably be better for you to actually visit the breeder and see their operation and animals to get a good feel for exactly what you'll be purchasing.

As you "phone interview" the prospective breeders, have a questionnaire already worked up that you can go through so you get all the info you need. Be ready to take notes on the answers. After taking with all of them, compare results and think about your emotional feelings about each as you talked with them. Ask for references! Talk to some of their previous clients! Did any seem evasive or over zealous? Did any have a problem with you visiting their operation? Then after your evaluation, select the #1 breeder you feel best about and move forward. If you can afford it or if they line up on a map, maybe select the #2 and visit them as well during your fact finding trip to see #1.

On my previous purchases from reputable breeders, they had their own connections with other breeders and if they didn't have puppies available and knew of other breeders who did, they offered the other breeder's contact info. You could always ask them where they got their breeding stock from... or if they've sold breeding pairs, would they give you that person's contact info.

Good luck! and once again, welcome! Please let us know how things go and we all love pictures!
 

Southern by choice

Herd Master
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
Messages
13,336
Reaction score
14,682
Points
613
Location
North Carolina
I would recommend http://www.esquirecaucasians.com/

She is very honest and upfront. Also these dogs haven't been utilized as LGD's for a long time. They are better property guardians and they will require 6 ft fencing. I do believe they also temperament test their dogs. She will also refer out, it isn't just about her dogs.

Many people that own this dogs that are selling them as LGD's do not even use them as that.
Having a picture with a single livestock animal is not always the "big" picture. Keep that in mind.

The one factor that you will need to take into consideration is insurance. Most insurance companys will not insure you. You may need an umbrella policy.
 

Maine0311

Just born
Joined
Feb 4, 2016
Messages
8
Reaction score
2
Points
8
Latestarter,

@Latestarter. Yea the Naval Air station shut down I believe in 2011-2012, but we still have reserve units on the backside of the airstrip...Thank you for your insight! I greatly appreciate you replying to my post. This is the only site that I found that had a lot of CO posts, but as mentioned previousIy those posts are no longer active threads and was unable to ask those specific member (still learning how to navigate this site, hahaha). I completely agree with you in regards to going OCONUS. I have read that it is expensive, and to your point I would most likely get the "unwanted" animals. I have talked with most of the people from the sites I posted. I have done phone interviews and I ALWAYS take notes. We don't have many resources up this way and the only way I can seem to find ANY breeders are online. I am certain that we will be buying here in the US. I only mentioned the other sites because I have heard decent things about the ones I posted, but again you NEVER know and I am not going to take the chance/risk. I know there has to be so many other breeders out there, but like I said, the only one's I can find are the ones I posted. I am not sure if you, being an owner and going through the entire process, would have any ideas as to how or where I could find other breeders? I know you are in Colorado so your breeders or people you have dealt with are most likely out that way; I may be way off on that, but it sounds like you have local resources or bought from someone you know personally. That being said ANY CO owner/potential buyer, in my opinion, would travel and/or go pretty much anywhere to ensure they are getting the right animal from the right breeder because of the breed. we're not buying a lab's here, haha. I HOPE people would take this approach and from your one post (insight/knowledge) I am pretty sure you went through the same thing I did. If you would be comfortable, and I completely understand if you would rather not, with sending me some information or ANY other breeders that you have dealt with? I understand that some breeders purposely do not have websites as they probably do NOT want to deal with amateurs and are VERY selective of where they send their animals too, especially with this breed. THOSE are the people that I would love to deal with. Either way I would definitely be flying to visit the breeders; what I trying NOT to do is spend thousands on tickets and visiting 4-5 spread throughout the country. I have no problem spending the time doing so, but the wallet won't like it...just to get to a place and realize I wasted my time. So if you have any informational sites you have used, any other sites I have yet to see (Not mentioned in the previous post) or people who you have dealt with and would be willing to talk I would love that. Either way I THANK you for commenting and look forward to gathering as much information as possible.
 

Maine0311

Just born
Joined
Feb 4, 2016
Messages
8
Reaction score
2
Points
8
I would recommend http://www.esquirecaucasians.com/

She is very honest and upfront. Also these dogs haven't been utilized as LGD's for a long time. They are better property guardians and they will require 6 ft fencing. I do believe they also temperament test their dogs. She will also refer out, it isn't just about her dogs.

Many people that own this dogs that are selling them as LGD's do not even use them as that.
Having a picture with a single livestock animal is not always the "big" picture. Keep that in mind.

The one factor that you will need to take into consideration is insurance. Most insurance companys will not insure you. You may need an umbrella policy.


Thank you for the insight. Have you purchased from them? I have researched the dogs they have and also have researched some reviews. How comfortable are you with Stacey? Some of the reviews I have seen do not paint a pretty picture...but this IS THE INTERNET so who knows who THOSE individuals are. I would LOVE to hear what you have to say or if you have purchased from her? Thanks for commenting! I also can't find anything on the site that has been updated prior to 2012 (forgot to mention that).
 

Southern by choice

Herd Master
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
Messages
13,336
Reaction score
14,682
Points
613
Location
North Carolina
I have not purchased from them. I have no need for a CO we already have a family protection dog.

For the farm I have Livestock Guardians that have come from generations of working guardians and I breed my own dogs. :)

I have talked with Stacey and felt that she brought far more to the table than anyone else and that her background with the breed was credible.

When I talk with a breeder I am looking at many things.
I have not however, owned any of her dogs.
And yes, the internet can be an issue. Someone doesn't like something someone says, or does something different and there will be those that have a hissy fit.
In some ways talking about the CO's is like talking about the Kangal/Anatolian. :lol:
Ask a Kangal person and they snub their nose and refer to the toli as "generic" .... Toli people know the Kangal is a "patented" Anatolian. :lol: ... it gets so heated it is silly.

Give me a working dog with excellent temperament that can do it's job.:D

What will your purpose be for the dog, if you don't mind me asking?
 

Maine0311

Just born
Joined
Feb 4, 2016
Messages
8
Reaction score
2
Points
8
It is funny you mention the Kangal/Anatolian debate...I have seen that "back and forth" argument. I have researched both just for the fun of it and i like to read everything I can get my hands on. the breed's have interested me, but i have my mind set on a CO. I will be calling Stacy. I had done some more digging and the more i see the "negative" reviews probably come from ignorant or upset people. Not very reputable sites for reviews. This happens all over the place which you eluded to. Have you talked with Martha at Rockhill? she seemed to have a lot of good insight and answered all of my questions that I had which is positive. I seem to be seeing decent things from Estalpha as well. Not sure if you have talked with them (out of NV)?

To answer your purpose question:
we are buying 15-20 Acres for a new home here in Maine. I live close by with great neighbors and have plenty of people around while i am gone. We are going to start having children (I have asked ALL ABOUT that with this breed) and we will be in a remote area. I am looking for a companion, family guardian and an animal that will be both a great guardian as well as a family dog. I disagree with the people who say "thats a bad family dog breed". i believe that it is HOW the animal is raised and trained. Yes these animals certainly have instincts and these instincts I want. We have had pitbulls and rottweilers in the family around children all of the time growing up. again i would say from experience that an improperly trained animal could be a danger. I am always watchful REGARDLESS, but I've also witnessed nasty labs that have bitten kids. I put this on the owner. we never had an issue with either of those breeds. As the Rotty got older she could get grumpy, but this is knowing the animal and we would take the proper precautions. never had an issue.The CO is entirely different and will take more work than a lab (for the obvious reason we both already know). As a Marine I have looked at breads that match my personality for a good fit. I am looking for a loyal, protective, family guardian dog. I will be home a lot, but my wife will be home all day alone, in the future with our children (when we have them :)). these animals will have a working purpose in the sense that we do have bear, coyotes, wolves, and Moose all around. this is not the sole reason, but is another reason that I love this breed. Loyal, smart, good judgement (if properly bred and trained), guardian, working and family dog. That may be a lengthy explanation of what we would be using the animal for. simple answer i guess would have been, I want another Marine in the house, i want another FAMILY member in the house and I want that member of family to be trained to do all of the mentioned comments above. We will not have "live stock" yet. we may in the future but not planning on it. Thanks for responding again and I look forward to seeing what you think.
THANKS AGAIN!!
 

Southern by choice

Herd Master
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
Messages
13,336
Reaction score
14,682
Points
613
Location
North Carolina
I am quoting some of your post in lines because I think it is important for others that may come across this... bare with me as I am going somewhere with this...
i believe that it is HOW the animal is raised and trained. Yes these animals certainly have instincts and these instincts I want.
How an animal is raised is only ONE factor. There are many factors involved. I cannot stress this enough.
We have had pitbulls and rottweilers in the family around children all of the time growing up. again i would say from experience that an improperly trained animal could be a danger
I am always watchful REGARDLESS, but I've also witnessed nasty labs that have bitten kids
The last line I quoted from your post is the best! Glad to hear this!
I often see the line "it's all in how you raise them"... and it is simply NOT TRUE! There are genetic factors, individual breed instinct behaviors, training and handling, & birth factors.

I was happy to see that last line- that you are watchful regardless.
The reason you are not seeing the same issues with the Rotties thay you see with the pitbulls today is because the Rottie community DID SOMETHING about their issues. This was a breed that had high attack rates, deaths in the 80's... many wanted to ban the breed.... but unlike the pit-bull community Rottie breeders and owners took responsibility. Now you see very few issues. The same has happened with GSD, Dobies.
Today the Pitt community cries out how sweet fifi is and how it's all in how they are raised and wha wah wah ... they refuse to recognize that there are other factors and as long as they stay in denial they are only hurting their beloved breed. When there is an attack ... it must have been a bad owner ... :\
When some one says Oh my pittie woudn't hurt a fly I want to smack them :smack
ALL dogs have the potential to bite- got teeth it can bite.
But a Chihuahua can't maul and maim and kill.
Not funny but around 2004-2008 somewhere ther a bouts... Labs bit more people than any other breed ( or was high on the list) of course that goes in line with popularity of a breed. Labs can maul also.

Glad to see in your post that you understand the potential of the breed you are choosing.
The CO is entirely different and will take more work than a lab (for the obvious reason we both already know).
The CO is going to take more work than your Rottie or your Pitt forget a Lab :lol:

I get the sense you are aware of what will be required of you for a CO. It is a nice change. I hear many people looking for a this or a that and they just want something "different" or others that have this I want a "bada$$" dog.... :rolleyes:
Truth is many of these people couldn't handle the breeds they think they want.

I will pm you later today- some thoughts and little things that you might want to tuck away in the back of your mind. ;)
 

Maine0311

Just born
Joined
Feb 4, 2016
Messages
8
Reaction score
2
Points
8
@Southern by choice Spot on. i agree with you 100% and you put it more eloquently than i did. I like the response to its How you raise/train the animal. I did forget, as i wrote this, to mention those things you followed up on; genetics, instincts, etc. ALL VERY IMPORTANT...100% agreed. just got typing and left those out as PART of my comment in which i should have mentioned those with the broader statement of HOW THE OWNER raises the animal. You are correct. I think we could have an entire thread on just this topic alone. The Rotty community, as you said, did take charge and made some strides. I also love the fact that you recognize, as I do, that this breed (CO) has become "popular" in the last 5-10 years because some people read for 5 minutes or google the "best guard dog" or "I want a Bad$$$ dog"...THESE are the people that get something "cool" as a pet and the animal, in the end, is the one that suffers because the individual bought something on a fad and has no clue how to handle it properly (or understand the temperament, instinct, genes,etc.)...also goes back to not knowing what the breed is intended for. I've seen and heard an owner, this is not a joke, that said "I bought him because he is awesome and is a great guard dog and looks like a lion" (Tibetian Mastif)...conversation was 15 minutes or so and the man had no clue what he was talking about and basically bought this animal because it was cool, without REALLY knowing the genetics, temperament, etc. That is another breed that SHOULD NOT BE IN THE HANDS of a person like the gentleman I mentioned. THIS scared me as that animal (as a CO, Komodor, Staffordshire/Pit, Ridgebacks, Malamutes, wolf-Hybrids, Presa's, Akita's...list goes on as you are probably MORE familiar with this than I will ever be) will be the one to suffer if god forbid something happens because of the lack of knowledge and all for-mentioned issues you and I have discussed. The OTHER thing that scared me and what went through my mind was "who the hell would sell this animal to a man like this?"...and this goes with why I am concerned with WHO I go through with regards to a solid breeder. Dalmatians can be nasty and its the "disney dog"...this all goes with what you are saying and I agree with you 100%. Thanks again for the insight and expanding on the the comment about "the Owner" in my last post. I am glad you expanded on that for myself and others who may see this.
 
Last edited:
Top