New in Hampton Roads, seeking advice...

hello, my name is Doyle. After spending summers and holidays on our family farm in Suffolk, VA family members passing away have left the property in the hands of my Grandmother. The farm has about 60 acres of working farm land and just over 40 of wooded land. Currently the farm acreage is being rented out at just over $3000 (I think) but this is just enough to pay the property tax and not much else. I'm considering building a house on the property. Times are tough and any extra cash I can send grandmas way would certainly help.

With that in mind I would like to know if anyone has any advice for trying to make the land work a bit harder. I have a full time job so keep that in mind. I had considered cattle and swine, but I'm new and all. I have some experience with beekeeping as well. Any thoughts/advice you might be able offer would be greatly appreciated.

Just wanted to add I have been scouring the net for a while, learning what I can. I had considered striving for high quailty low quantity organic operations with the idea of finding local restaurants to sell to, though a butcher of course. I know this will present its own set of issues but it seemed the best way to maximize the profit. Now that may require more time than I have, so I'm open to any ideas.

Welcome to Backyard Herds! You have a good idea, and it's great that you are doing a lot of planning first.

What are your grandma's plans, if any, for the property? What has it been used for in the past? Crops, livestock, both?

After building a house, your biggest investment if you're considering livestock would be fencing. Livestock shelters, especially for smaller livestock, can be smaller and a lot of people here have built their own. You'll need a water source, and hay storage, too.

What livestock sells in your area? Is there a market for lamb, beef, pork or goat meat? You mentioned selling to restaurants - I considered that, too, but I'm a smaller producer, so I wouldn't have enough for what a restaurant would want. And they would be likely to want only the choicer cuts, not the whole lamb (ask though, your area may differ). Other options are to sell at a livestock auction or to private buyers. I sell to private buyers, I deliver the lambs to the processor, and the buyers pick up the meat a week or so later. I have had no problem selling all the lambs I produce - but like I said, I'm a small operation.

I love my sheep but if you want low input, you may want to look into hair sheep so you don't have to deal with shearing. If goat meat sells in your area, there are some good meat goat breeds. Others here know a lot more about pigs and cattle, I don't. There's a lot more to it all, but that's some highlights. Good luck!

Greetings Doyle and welcome. Sorry about the loss of your family members. If you build a house on the property, it may change the land use, which would affect taxation. I don't know your Grandmother's health, but will she be working on or helping in this farming endeavor? The reason I ask is because you said you have a full time job, and raising animals for profit (& even for fun) is a kinda full time job also. It's difficult to hold a job and have a small farm on your own property, let alone on another. Also, if you take back the land from it's present use that is generating the income to cover taxes, you'll need to make at least that much (or hopefully more).

It would be best if you actually sit down and write out a full blown business plan to determine what is reasonable and practical, as well as possible. As Norse mentioned/alluded to, there may be need of capital improvements to the property before you could even start... buildings, fencing, handling facilities, etc. I don't know if any of the timber on the 40 acres is marketable, but you could potentially generate some working capital there with selective harvesting. You might also get in touch with the county extension agent and ask for help evaluating the property for "best use". They may also be able to help/guide you (or point you to others) as to what would need to be done to make the property "ready" for the use you intend.

It doesn't sound like something you want to do, but you could consider sub dividing the home and a small amount of land out and sell the rest of the farm. I lived in Tidewater/Hampton Roads for many years and remember when Chesapeake was rural... It isn't so much anymore, and from my understanding, your area is growing as well. Sprawl happens.

Anyway, welcome again, and hope it all works out for you and your family!

Thanks for taking a moment to reply. To answer your questions...

What are your grandma's plans, if any, for the property? Due to age/health concerns the property has been put into a trust with her having life rights to it. My father and aunt are the "owners" now but it seems like were all on the same page as far as keeping it and passing it down. She lives offsite so really there aren't any immediate plans.

What has it been used for in the past? Crops, livestock, both? far back as I can remember its been planted with either soy, cotton, or peanuts. As far as I know they land has been farmed "responsibly," at least this was the reason I was given for such a low rent being charged. To my knowledge their have never been any animals kept, I never could figure out why.

What livestock sells in your area? I live in the footprint of the Smithfield packing plant, so I know pork is big here. I'm not sure about anything else. I personally love Lamb but it seems to be very rare here, and by association i doubt their is a market for goat. Lots of chicken houses in the area, I had considered trying to do a "free range" type thing but wasn't sure if that would be viable economically.

I wouldn't have enough for what a restaurant would want. I had considered this myself, and I doubt I would be able to be a sole supplier either. My hope was that by attempting to raise the highest quality beef possible (with all the buzzwords associated) I would be able to create a market whenever I had product available. I know I'm not raising "kobe" but I thought by giving plenty of "cow space" and using strictly grass fed when possible I would be able to "let them be" so to speak and hopefully get a very high quality product. I had even considered trying to get a bull to let the herd grow naturally.

I would have no problem selling to private buyers but I fear an auction system might defeat my goal of maximizing profit while minimizing labor input. The money wouldn't be counted on for anything other than taxes, above and beyond that would just be bonus money so I don't think quick sales would be needed. I have always wanted to produce a larger portion of my own personal food as well, so I would also likely be able to "absorb" some leftovers from the butcher personally as well.

I work in a stuffy office all day so I would relish the opportunity to get outside and work with my hands. I built houses during the summer in my high school days and would feel confident in my ability to build/install/maintain any fences/shelters that were needed.

"Sorry about the loss of your family members. If you build a house on the property, it may change the land use, which would affect taxation. I don't know your Grandmother's health, but will she be working on or helping in this farming endeavor? "

Thank you, and thanks for taking a moment to reply. There is an acre or two on the road that isn't zoned for farm use, so it shouldn't be an issue as long as I don't have to go into any that is for construction. That is a primary concern though. No she wouldn't be able to help, I might be able to rope my Aunt into a very minor helping role.

"The reason I ask is because you said you have a full time job, and raising animals for profit (& even for fun) is a kinda full time job also. It's difficult to hold a job and have a small farm on your own property, let alone on another."

I imagine so. and one of the reasons I'm researching and going slowly, looking for the most efficient crop/animal. I would enjoy doing this part time, but I wouldn't be able to do it full time. If it was economically viable I wouldn't mind hiring someone to help, plenty of young farm hands around.

"Also, if you take back the land from it's present use that is generating the income to cover taxes, you'll need to make at least that much (or hopefully more)."

Ahh, another reason I'm moving quite carefully. Perhaps I'm wrong but it just seems like $50 an acre per year just isn't enough. however low it seems though I would be on the hook for it if I do take the leap though.

"It would be best if you actually sit down and write out a full blown business plan to determine what is reasonable and practical, as well as possible."

I'm a small business accountant so I totally agree/see the value in doing so. In fact, thats one of the reasons I'm here. I need somewhere to begin researching and was hoping to find suggestions in the bountiful experience on this forum.

"I don't know if any of the timber on the 40 acres is marketable, but you could potentially generate some working capital there with selective harvesting."

I believe this was done years ago when my great uncle was running the farm. I've been told that part of the deal was "reseeding/replanting" though the details aren't exact. However, it seems the guy who cut the trees may not have done so. I need to have someone go back and walk the property who knows what they are doing but my father recently walked it and said there wasn't a great deal of evidence suggesting it was replanted.

I have suggested that we find a way to "farm" the timber by planting and activly managing it but we still need to see if thats possible. I believe that would be a fairly large capital outlay though and I'm hesitant with the decline in timber demand/prices resulting from the apparent virtual/paperless movement.

"You might also get in touch with the county extension agent and ask for help evaluating the property for "best use". They may also be able to help/guide you (or point you to others) as to what would need to be done to make the property "ready" for the use you intend."

This is a new one for me, thanks. I'm not sure if we even have one but I will look into it. I had assumed that as long as I continued to "farm" the land I wouldn't need to worry about the farm use thing. I was thinking shifting from crops to livestock wouldn't be an issue but I'll look into making sure.


"It doesn't sound like something you want to do, but you could consider sub dividing the home and a small amount of land out and sell the rest of the farm. I lived in Tidewater/Hampton Roads for many years and remember when Chesapeake was rural... It isn't so much anymore, and from my understanding, your area is growing as well. Sprawl happens."

Indeed it does, and at an alarming (to me anyway) rate around here. This is the one thing we all agree on not wanting to do. At some point it may be unavoidable but were pretty sure the property has been in the family since 1640 something and with that kind of history it would be heartbreaking to have to sell it.


"Anyway, welcome again, and hope it all works out for you and your family!"

Thanks!

Hi, there. I live on the outskirts of Suffolk, over by Franklin. My comments are that ANYTIME you raise animals, you really need to be there (or someone, if not you). Animals always find a way to challenge you, your fences, gates, water troughs, etc. Predators -- as simple as stray dogs -- can spook them. If there is only a 6' section of fence down on 100 acres, trust me -- they will find and use it. Pretty much AM & PM, you need to be able to look around and see they are there & ok. I do a head count every morning. And, my animals know me....my sound, my "stop it", my "good boy" & the sound of calling them for feed. Learned a long, long time ago that a black cow is real hard to find at night!!! BUT, if they knew "the" call, they would find you quickly. It's true.

Also, meat goats sell in the areas around Richmond & North, as there is a larger ethnic group who like them. I have taken trailer loads to butchers there in years past. Not so much local, however. Same with lamb, overall. Smithfield likes to use specific type hogs -- not your free range either. I successfully sold cattle to individuals but, fewer slaughter houses available now....still some.

As you say, mostly there are crops raised in this area. And the equipment is very expensive. You may want to check with the Ag reps to see what the "going" rate is for the use of the land. Your farmer may be well below that -- maybe not. A trip to the zoning & planning department would be in order for you to be sure of the use, property offsets, any limits, etc. Timber sells but, that $$$ may be available to only your grandma, dad & aunt. Plus building a house would require the consent of these same three.....and even their co-signing if a mortgage would be part of the home building due to ownership of the land.

I'm going to assume that you have already run these plans of yours past the current family members who have the control
& that they are agreeable. I don't mean to be negative but, that would need to be step ONE. The life of a farmer is hard work & if you take what income is there away, you will need to be prepared for more than offsite living to make it up. It can be done, probably not as immediate as that check from the farmers using it now, so at least be prepared to pay that fee for a couple years. Might check when their lease expires, also, as a matter of planning use.

One of the reasons that "new" farmers are not in large numbers is the expense, time, knowledge and accepting the fact that Mother Nature rules their efforts! I hope you continue to pursue your dreams and are successful. I'm loving my "farm" but not expecting it to support me (past farm ventures have!) and I currently want to just earn enough farm income to support the feed bills. Far different than paying for the land.

Let us know how this venture works out. Sounds like a great opportunity may be in place for you. Congrats!

Read what you were writing as I was also. Crop &/or livestock have issues that must be addressed with respect to current waterways, runoff, waste management, etc. If you are near the river you will have rules that others may not, further inland.

Smithfield Foods has huge areas of waste ponds, contained by liners, which then are spread across XX # of acres, for waste management of hogs. (As an example.)

And, yes, still a lot of ag/extension agents around.

With your profession, you will be able to research the tax issues for various types of farming (our CPA did for us) as a way to prep your own questions for the various office/reps you will be visiting.

Thanks Mini! one of the conditions I had to insist on was the deeding of a small portion of the land where the house would be constructed. I've dealt with enough estates/trusts to know the logistics/legality could be a horrible ordeal otherwise. Nothing extravagant mind you, just enough to satisfy the bank/lawyers.

If I do find a way to move forward the actual farm land would be rented as before, I'd have to figure out a leasehold situation for any improvements on that land, likely I would just pay for them and take any profit until it was repaid. I would like to take a more liberal approach but creating a situation where the costs aren't evenly split wouldn't be fair to the people I am directly responsible for now/in the future.

Thanks for the info!

Hope you'll stay around and bring us with you on this journey. Maybe do a blog type journal? I'm sure many will be able to benefit from your experiences through this.

Maximizing profit while minimizing labor due to a full time job usually doesn't work in farming
With livestock the least work usually involves buying weaned animals, finishing them and then reselling them
You said you weren't thinking selling at auction because you want to max profit well then you increase your work to sell to restaurants or farmers markets
For a while now because beef prices have been high you could make money buying weaned steers and heifers and feeding them and taking back to the auction
But who knows what prices will be like next year
Doing cow/calf is more work and risk
Buying weaned steers and heifers is less work and your biggest risk is market risk i.e. price fluctuations
How much do you have to invest in this?
You can keep cows in with 3 strands of Hotwire so you would have less fence cost but a 500 lb weaned steer or heifer is going for $1200
You could do 30 on your land so that would be $36,000