Let's Talk About Corid and Cocci.

babsbag

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I read about Corid and Cocci and I always have nothing but questions so I would love to tap into the minds of the many BYH members and sort this out. Personally my vet tells me that Corid is safe and I know producers that use it as a preventative and as a treatment.

Many times Corid is the go to med for treating Cocci, it is readily available and it works. When a poster states that they are using Corid it is often stated that Corid is a Thiamine inhibitor and that it shouldn't be used in goats, but if it is used Thiamine should be given during treatment.

This is what I know, or think I know.

Thiamine is produced by the rumen of a healthy goat.
Cocci needs Thiamine to survive
Corid imitates Thiamine and the Cocci ingest the imitation Thiamine and die.

So why is Thiamine production suppressed when Corid is administered? Does it "trick" the body into thinking it doesn't need to produce thiamine? Is it produced on as needed basis?

I would like to hear what your understanding is of how Corid works and whether or not Thiamine is important to give during Corid usage or does the administration of Thiamine negate the Corid?
 

Green Acres Farm

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I have never used CoRid (I use DiMethox), but I have heard from multiple places and people I have met that CoRid is innefective and some places that it works well.:hu

This is the first time I have heard that some people think you shouldn't give thiamine supplementation. I think if I had to use CoRid, I would be too scared not to. I guess I'd rather have a possible longer cocci treatment than risking goat polio.

I am really hoping DiMethox, Sulmet, and Baycox will become available at local feed stores, but I know on the Tennessee Meat Goat site, she was saying it will soon stop being over the counter.:he
 

greybeard

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Is Corid® labeled (and FDA approved) for goats?
 
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farmerjan

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The VFD is the reason why some of this stuff will be unavailable at the feed stores etc. I find Corid is mostly effective for chickens and calves. They say that most subspecies of cocci are breed specific, yet there have been other cases where they have been found in the different ones. I think that the sulfa's will be more effective than amprolium (corid) for goats but look up a couple of the goat sites and see what they are saying. Don't have alot of experience with goats, but we had coccidiosis in calves in the shed where we raised the turkeys the year before. Never had any problem with the calves until I had the turkeys there; now I just figure the calves will probably get it and watch for it and treat it right away. Species specific?????
 

greybeard

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I have never used CoRid (I use DiMethox), but I have heard from multiple places and people I have met that CoRid is innefective and some places that it works well.:hu

This is the first time I have heard that some people think you shouldn't give thiamine supplementation. I think if I had to use CoRid, I would be too scared not to. I guess I'd rather have a possible longer cocci treatment than risking goat polio.

I would think, that if you supplement the use of Amprolium alongside Thiamine, you may as well not use the Corid. Amprolium works, because the protozoan needs thiamen to grow and reproduce, and it is the amproleum's ability to inhibit thiamen transport that makes the amproleum work and kill the 1st stage of the protozoa..

Thiamen is produced naturally on a daily basis from the digestion of plant materials and thru bacterial action in the gut.
 

Southern by choice

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Is Corid® labeled (and FDA approved) for goats?

Corid like almost every other "drug" for goats is OFF LABEL and therefore must only be used under the supervision of a veterinarian.
Sadly there is little to no research on goats in the US.

One reason I am very adamant about finding a reliable vet and building relationship.

The amprolium is a thiamine antagonist.

Quote from medicine net.
Antagonist: A substance that acts against and blocks an action. Antagonist is the opposite of agonist. Antagonists and agonists are key players in the chemistry of the human body and in pharmacology.

The insert from Bio-vet-
PHARMACOLOGICAL ACTION Amprolium, the active substance of Amprol® 9,6 % Oral Solution is a thiamine antagonist. The anticoccidial effect of Amprolium is achieved by inhibiting the Eimeria spp. to uptake thiamine. The thiamine requirement for Eimeria spp. is, compared to animals, relative high and therefore Amproleum will cause starvation of the parasite because of thiamine deficiency. As this way is unique, Amprolium does not show cross-resistance with other anticoccidial preparations.

In many articles I came across it says that Thiamine may need to be given if overdose.
Long-term administration of amprolium in high doses may result in thiamine (vitamin B1) deficiency in the host. To treat amprolium overdose, thiamine should be administered parenterally or orally.

To my understanding IF you are giving thiamine at the same time as the amprolium you are defeating the purpose. Because you are no longer starving the parasite but feeding it.

Perhaps this drug is best as a preventative and not when an animal is already in critical condition.

:hu
 

babsbag

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The administration of thiamine has just not made sense to me, there was this nagging part of my brain that said it was counterproductive.
I think that the "administer thiamine" song has just been repeated so much that it is now fact and it isn't doing anyone any good to repeat it.

But is Corid getting a bad rap?

This is from the Corid sales information.

How CORID works
Structurally, CORID mimics thiamin (Vitamin B1) which is required by coccidia for normal growth and reproduction. When coccidia ingest CORID, they experience thiamin deficiency and starve from malnutrition.

Ok, I understand that. But does an animal produce thiamine as needed? Is that why it can cause Polioencephalomalacia (PEM)? Why doesn't it do the same to cattle? They produce thiamine the same way and I know that they are susceptible to PEM.

This is from the Merck Manual

Historically, PEM has been associated with altered thiamine status, but more recently an association with high sulfur intake has been seen....Overall, there is not a linear relation among the presence of ruminal and fecal thiaminase, decreased concentrations of tissue and blood thiamine, and development of disease.

According to the University of Alabama
Thiaminase can also be caused by PROLONGED administration of Corid (Amprolium), the administration of de-wormers, grazing in newly fertilized pastures, and increased sulfur intake.
 

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