Fence gate on a hille question

Latestarter said:

I'm pretty sure I've decided I'm going with double gates here... a 10 footer for main/typical vehicle traffic and a 6 footer for foot/animal traffic. Both can be opened for larger/longer vehicles (to maneuver through) if the need arises.

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Sounds like an excellent idea @Latestarter

How easy, or not, is it to keep the gates closed against each other such that animals can't push out between them? I ended up with two 36" 5' high gates from HD on 2" metal posts to keep the chickens back between or behind the barns. Clearly a "residential" design but nothing agricultural seems to come in 5' heights. I use cane bolts in holes drilled into a PT 4x4 laid in the ground to hold them closed. That would be somewhat less practical out in a field than it is up close to the house.

There is a "stop rod" that can be attached to a gate, that drops down to the ground to keep one gate closed when you open the other in a double gate situation. It is like spring loaded, so will stay down or up when you put it where you want it. It works okay, and is nice where the gates might both swing open and you can't get them both closed at the same time or you are trying to just get through a smaller space and don't want to worry about someone "sneaking" past you as you drive through a big opening. I've seen small pieces of pipe buried in the ground that the end can drop into to keep the gate in place, kinda like the idea @Bruce used with the 4x4 but we usually just use a small gate chain around the gates near the bottom for the sheep when they get to trying to push.

Bruce said:

How easy, or not, is it to keep the gates closed against each other such that animals can't push out between them?

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Pretty easy. Use a drop pin to anchor one gate closed, and the other gate latches to that one. (I usually drive a piece of pipe a bit larger diameter than the drop pin, so the pin won't just be stuck into dirt) Some people call them a drop pin--some call them an 'easy latch'. You often see them used on double chain link fence gates.
Looks like the picture here

Here's the part that keeps the drop pin from rotating which would allow the left gate to open. (sorry for the crude extension drawing--couldn't find a good pic with detail) colored area is the ground and below ground.

I have 2 pipes in the ground for the cane bolt on the left side "closes over" barn door. One full open, one "chicken size" open. Use the latter in bad weather. The "chicken" one is barely out of the ground so I don't trip over it seeing as how it is about a foot away from the "closed position. The chickens are pretty good at kicking dirt and tiny bits of rock into it so it needs cleaning out with some frequency. And I need to find it on snowy mornings

But it wouldn't be a problem for the pipe in a fence line to be further up since there would be no reason to have it in the walking path and the dropped pin is on the "stays closed unless both gates need to be open" side. In my barn case, the right side door is held closed by a turnbuckle on the inside to the upper part of the frame unless I need to open both doors. The cane bolt is used to hold the other door open.

Thanks for the ideas.

greybeard said:

Smallest gate should be 12', and that's minimum for sure. I do have one 10' gate but only because it is on a pond dam, and anything wider would mean it latched or swung off to the down side of the dam and I was loathe to do much digging in the side of that dam.
16' gates are heavy and tend to sag badly. 2 8 footers will serve the same purpose with less weight per mounting post, altho a wheel at the swinging end can help--IF, it swung over level ground..
As far as space below the gate on a slope, just mount the gate to match the slope instead of mounting it straight and level, even if it means using these type mount pins where you can make one much longer than the other. TSC sells them here, as do a couple big box hardware & building stores.

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If you look at this photo of the clamp that surrounds the round metal gate ... this is where slippage occurs . You can hang the gate on the top and bottom hinges and use another another middle hinge in the middle but hang it upside down and screw in a self tapping screw though the side of the hinge clamp and through the round metal of the gate . Or , if you want to use just the top and bottom hinges with the top on hung upside down, you can just use a self tapping screws on the sides of the hinge strap that clamps onto the round gate metal. Now , if you also have a round metal fence post ( like for a chain link fence ) or mare motel as the gate post side , you will have 2 clamp on hinge sides which can rotate sideways if an animal hits the gate and/or if an animal tried to put it's head through the gate open spaces and can lift the gate off it's hinges. To solve this you will have to screw in self tapping screws into the sides of the hinge straps and into the fence side post as will as the hinge strap and through the metal of the round metal gate.

Oh, I understand what is being said about 'slippage', but like most others that replied, I just don't understand how it can happen or why. The bottom pin is always turned up. It has a flat on it for the bottom hinge to ride on. That bottom hinge on every pipe or tube gate I've ever used is welded to the gate--it's immovable. The bottom hinge carries almost all the static weight of the gate. The top hinge is movable, mostly to make it easy to install compared to the old stamped galvanized steel farm gates everyone used to use.

The top hinge pin carries no vertical weight, nor does the top hinge, other than it's own weight, and that hinge weighs about as much as my hat does. That preformed strap hinge, tightened with a 3/8" bolt, nut and lock washer provides about 100x the clamping force needed to support the weight of that top hinge. As someone else said, the top hinge carries the horizontal lateral stress--not the the verticalweight.
I probably have 25 tube or pipe gates on my property. I've never had a single top hinge 'slide' and have never needed to install a 3rd hinge or use a set screw to keep the top hinge in place.

But, lets say the bottom hinge was also movable up and down the vertical stay--neither hinge welded to the vertical stay and both attached to the vertical stay with it's own 3/8" bolt and nut. Wold the bottom (weight bearing) hinge move? Not in my experience. A few years ago, I had a need for a pair of odd sized shed doors. 10'w and an odd dimension in height. I built the first one the old fashioned way--out of treated wood, covered with sheet metal and barn strap hinges. It was a pita.
The second one, I built with two 10' Preifert built gates. Turned them bottom to bottom, shortened one on the bottom side to get the overall correct height, and since they were made with 1 5/8" od tubing, I found 1 1/4" solid cold roll would slide right in the 3 vertical sections. I inserted 3' into each vertical stay, and welded them up together. With the cold roll and the 26 ga sheet metal, I added an extra 80 lbs to the gates.

As you can see, because one of the gates is inverted, both hinges had to be the movable type. I 'could' have used the welded hinge on the bottom of the top portion, but there was and is no reason to. The clamping force of the two hinges is plenty to support the assembled door. Top pin is turned down, bottom hinge pin is turned up. No "slippage".
This is the approx weight of a 20' gate.

not the best pic, but this is the bottom hinge--the top one is identical:


Top hinge:


I store feed in there in summer and hay during fall and winter--it gets a lot of use.

I would guess that if there were any concern about the bottom hinge slipping up under the weight of the gate, it could be installed just below the 2nd tube. If it did slip, that is where it would end up anyway

To help understand what I am referring to -- there is a Thoroubred breeding farm just about 14 miles from our place. They breed up to 300 of their own and client mares per year. They have 100 mare motels ( round steel pipe fencing ) for mares and their foals and 4 large dry lot pens (12' round steel pipe panels hung between steel posts ) for mares without foals. They tease the mares to detect mares in heat using pony stallions 2 times per day. Sometimes the pony stallion would stick his head through the gate's bars and when the mare squeels and kicks when not in heat the pony pulls his head up and out and the gate goes flying off it's hinges. You can also imagine the activity and the need of the mares to protect their foals from the pony stallions as they pass by when the mare in not in heat as they attack at the pony with teeth bared. Sometimes the mare will reach their head through the gate spaces and lift up their head and lift the gate off it's hinges get caught and start to struggle which may cause her to panic and get hurt. Also, if the mare is in heat , she will swing around and press her rear quarters against the gate and LEAN hard against the gate and have the top gate hinge strap rotate and the gate is then difficult to open because of the difference of top and bottom hinge new hanging angle. The Latino crew were repairing / rehanging the gates almost daily. When I saw what was happening, I suggested that they install self tapping screws into and through the hinge strap and into the gate and steel post steel on the other side . Problem solved .