New to shepherding

Bruce

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@Bruce goats and sheep are both particularly susceptible to worms. In fact I read recently that keeping alpacas with sheep and/or goats can cause problems with worms for the alpacas. Primarily because the alpacas use a communal pile but the others do not, so they have more worm problems from grazing. Never thought of that.

Hmmm. Wife was asking about routinely cleaning up the alpacas' outside latrine. I figure since it can be used as fertilizer directly with no need to compost, why put in the work to move it from "here" to "there" until we need it "somewhere else" since it is already in one place and not a particularly inconvenient one.

Am I risking parasite problems in the boys by doing that?? IF it ever stops raining, should I be moving it, maybe toss it in the veg garden? I would have to clean that out first. Kinda low priority at the moment given all the other things I need to do so I've been ignoring it.
 

mystang89

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Everyone's had really good points so far. I started slow, with just 2 sheep, and am glad I did. No matter how much you read, study and ask questions - when you get your sheep and you're staring at them and they're staring at you, both of you wondering, "what now?", you feel a bit lost (at least I did!). And remember, your sheep didn't read any of the stuff you read. But you learn what works, and you continue to ask questions and learn more stuff.

What are your goals? Some milk to play around with for yourself, or some type of commercial operation? Meat for your own use, or to sell lambs to others?

How much time do you have to devote to all this? To me, that's a big consideration. You can spend as little as a half hour a day feeding and watering - or major parts of days during times like lambing, fencing, vaccinations, milking, shearing, fixing fencing, hoof trimming, getting hay in, working on fencing, dealing with a sick or injured sheep, bad weather, etc...

I started with two pregnant ewes so I didn't have to worry about getting a ram right away. I kept a ewe lamb, so I had 3 sheep lambing the next year, when I began learning to milk. I learned a lot, and last year I did quite a bit of milking. I only milked once a day, in the morning, and I occasionally skipped a day or so (simply didn't separate the lambs overnight on those days). Still, it was difficult, getting up way early, before work, to have enough time to milk the sheep. I think I lasted 3 months or so, and I did enjoy it, except for the 'up early' part.

I have also read that East Friesians need more care and feed. I have Icelandics, as I wanted mllk, meat and wool (and because I am in a group that studies and re-creates history in the Middle Ages (SCA), and Icelandics have been around for centuries). I also like their smaller size, the fact they browse as much as graze, and now that I have had them, I like their personality, too. If breed didn't matter as much, and I was looking for milking sheep, I'd probably check into crosses like mysunwolf mentioned.

I think you're right about starting small. I know many people who went full force into something they didn't know well and ended up overwhelmed. Lot of wasted money and didn't do any services to the animals either. Two or 3 sheep at the beginning is probably going to be a good starting position.

Since I don't have a paying job I will be able to give as much time as is needed to the care of the sheep, in between the care of the children so I'm not too worried about that end. My goals in all this is to provide for my family, that's it. Profit isn't a goal, but if I end up making some money on it then fine, I won't throw the money away. I want to be able to provide my family with milk, cheese, meat and warmth. I know I can get more milk from goats but they are terrible to fence. I can get more milk from cows but the growth to dispatch ratio is much longer than for sheep plus I can't make the cheeses I want nor the clothes I want from cows. (I tan hides as I don't like things going to waste.)

I did some more research specifically on the breed that I think would work for me and its true - East Friesians would not be a good match for me as a beginner. I was looking at Icelandics and they are still a possibility but I also found the Assaf Sheep. The are supposed to be more resilient than East Friesians and also be of stouter build (more meat) plus have more milk than Icelandics. The one LARGE downside that I see so far is that there is only one supplier in America that I have found which also means that the Law of Supply and Demand is going to kick my butt there.

Yes, but pay for clean animals. Pay to get them tested for common diseases. You want to start out with a biosecure herd.

Thank you for the tip. That is definitely a must no matter where the animal comes from and also something that probably would have completely slipped my mind.

Very true!
I just got home from our quarterly meeting. I am on the advisory committee for our county's extension service. (Dairy goat rep & poultry). I know our agent is awesome!
Often an extension agent can really help with pasture planting, evaluation, soil analysis, nutritional values. They often have workshops. We did an udder care workshop for the extension services. They may have workshops on parasite management, marketing, nutrition.

Those ponds are going to be problematic.

We also prefer to do as much as possible to mimic a natural environment however things like vaccines are very important, having on hand certain things will be imperative. Glad to hear you will do what is best for the animal.

I have never really looked into the extension offices. They all seem very difficult to get ahold of to me. That could just be because I see them as government offices and all government offices are crazy difficult for me to contact for some reason but if they are the experts in my area about my pasture then they are who I need to talk to. I know enough about taking care of a yard for personal property, when to mow, how to keep green, what it needs and what the normal grasses are in it but when it comes to a 7 acre pasture its too much for me. Its like walking into a forest and trying to grasp the entire thing in your mind. Just won't happen for a beginner like me. Time to look up the extention office.

Later today I will meet the sellers for the closing and at that time I will find out what the pasture consists of mainly. I will bring that info back here as well.

There are no ponds on the property just the little springs. I'm not saying that to argue I just want a clear picture of what it looks like. In fact, when I go there for the final walk through today I will take a picture of it for everyone so I can get more ideas!

Thank you all very much for all the input. I really truly appreciate all the assistance in getting a grasp on this!
 

purplequeenvt

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Hmmm. Wife was asking about routinely cleaning up the alpacas' outside latrine. I figure since it can be used as fertilizer directly with no need to compost, why put in the work to move it from "here" to "there" until we need it "somewhere else" since it is already in one place and not a particularly inconvenient one.

Am I risking parasite problems in the boys by doing that?? IF it ever stops raining, should I be moving it, maybe toss it in the veg garden? I would have to clean that out first. Kinda low priority at the moment given all the other things I need to do so I've been ignoring it.

They won't graze around their manure pile. You will always be able to locate their pile because there will be lovely tall, but uneaten grass around it.

My llamas never had parasite issues, even when pastured with sheep.
 

purplequeenvt

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I think you're right about starting small. I know many people who went full force into something they didn't know well and ended up overwhelmed. Lot of wasted money and didn't do any services to the animals either. Two or 3 sheep at the beginning is probably going to be a good starting position.

Since I don't have a paying job I will be able to give as much time as is needed to the care of the sheep, in between the care of the children so I'm not too worried about that end. My goals in all this is to provide for my family, that's it. Profit isn't a goal, but if I end up making some money on it then fine, I won't throw the money away. I want to be able to provide my family with milk, cheese, meat and warmth. I know I can get more milk from goats but they are terrible to fence. I can get more milk from cows but the growth to dispatch ratio is much longer than for sheep plus I can't make the cheeses I want nor the clothes I want from cows. (I tan hides as I don't like things going to waste.)

I did some more research specifically on the breed that I think would work for me and its true - East Friesians would not be a good match for me as a beginner. I was looking at Icelandics and they are still a possibility but I also found the Assaf Sheep. The are supposed to be more resilient than East Friesians and also be of stouter build (more meat) plus have more milk than Icelandics. The one LARGE downside that I see so far is that there is only one supplier in America that I have found which also means that the Law of Supply and Demand is going to kick my butt there.



Thank you for the tip. That is definitely a must no matter where the animal comes from and also something that probably would have completely slipped my mind.



I have never really looked into the extension offices. They all seem very difficult to get ahold of to me. That could just be because I see them as government offices and all government offices are crazy difficult for me to contact for some reason but if they are the experts in my area about my pasture then they are who I need to talk to. I know enough about taking care of a yard for personal property, when to mow, how to keep green, what it needs and what the normal grasses are in it but when it comes to a 7 acre pasture its too much for me. Its like walking into a forest and trying to grasp the entire thing in your mind. Just won't happen for a beginner like me. Time to look up the extention office.

Later today I will meet the sellers for the closing and at that time I will find out what the pasture consists of mainly. I will bring that info back here as well.

There are no ponds on the property just the little springs. I'm not saying that to argue I just want a clear picture of what it looks like. In fact, when I go there for the final walk through today I will take a picture of it for everyone so I can get more ideas!

Thank you all very much for all the input. I really truly appreciate all the assistance in getting a grasp on this!

Goats that are properly trained are not hard to fence at all. You would get a lot more milk for the input of feed and effort with a goat.

If you are looking for a sheep that can provide milk and meat, try to find someone with milky Katahdins. If you are wanting wool/pelts as well, that gets a bit more complicated. Icelandics are one of the better options, but you have to get sheep from milking lines otherwise it's kind of a waste of time. Also, keep in mind that a sheep's lactation is not as long as a goat or a cow (my Jersey just dried off at 17 months in milk).

I'd recommend starting with 3-5 ewes.
 

mystang89

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Ok, so closing is done and we finally own our first farm. I got these pictures yesterday when I was there. I know that the grass is really tall in most of them and that goats would be better suited for eating that. I still decided to take the pictures because it shows what vegetation is growing in the pasture for those of you who are of keener eye than myself.

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Goat Whisperer

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I know I can get more milk from goats but they are terrible to fence.
Glad you are starting small and thinking this through!

I had the complete opposite. 50 goats and not one gets out. 2 sheep? ALWAYS getting out. Finding them everywhere. They were sold after they had taken to running down the highway. Another member (who isn't on much anymore) who raises sheep, cattle, and yaks (think she had a few goats) had the same issue. I think it depends on the animals, but don't let that myth sway your thinking.
 
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