Newbie needing feeding advice for possibly underfed does

[Jster]

To be 60lbs at 6mo is spot-on perfect, frankly...can't help but think that if they had big problems or were kept really roughly, they wouldn't have hit that benchmark.

Either way...all in all, I think the goats actually look pretty good.

Thanks CM for your reply!

Well, to be honest, I have no clue about anything, being new to all this. I was looking at books and pictures online, and at the doe condition chart in one of our books, and I can very easily feel their ribs and slightly see them. But they do seem healthy and energetic, their droppings are appropriate, and honestly it could just be newbie confusion!

So...we will resist the temptation to increase their feed at least until we can judge it a little better, counting on their available forage and free choice hay to help them fatten up if they need it.

I have some wormer left over from the previous owners, it's the medicated food type, does that treat all kinds? (The bag itself has no label on it). Should we get a fecal test done or just try that?

I checked into alfalfa hay and it's not available nearvy, but pellets and cubes are. Cubes didn't seem a good idea, and we could pellets to combine with their food or just stick with what we've got.

And I agree, they're adorable! As sweet as dogs, and good dogs at that. Although one of them was trying to play with my two year old and head butted him slightly and he fell over, boy was he upset and the goat looked so ashamed when I yelled at her!) She likes him so much and truly just wanted to play. So we'll make sure we monitor things, but they are definitely all cute together and so much fun.

 

[cmjust0]

Well, to be honest, I have no clue about anything, being new to all this. I was looking at books and pictures online, and at the doe condition chart in one of our books, and I can very easily feel their ribs and slightly see them. But they do seem healthy and energetic, their droppings are appropriate, and honestly it could just be newbie confusion!

OR...maybe the pictures lied a little, and they're thinner in real life than they appeared to me in the pictures.

So...we will resist the temptation to increase their feed at least until we can judge it a little better, counting on their available forage and free choice hay to help them fatten up if they need it.

Actually, I'd advise ignoring me on this point, since it appears that I gacked it from the get-go..

Go with your gut...if you think they're too thin, they're probably too thin. If your gut tells you that they need extra supplementation, give it.

I have some wormer left over from the previous owners, it's the medicated food type, does that treat all kinds? (The bag itself has no label on it).

Personally, I don't like the idea of the deworming pellet. To be fair, though, I've never used it and it may work like gangbusters...I just personally feel more comfortable putting a syringe full of something down their piehole. Then you know they got it, and that one didn't knock the other one out and eat 3/4ths of the pellets...and nobody knocked it over or wasted it, or whatever.

If they're wormy now after having been exposed to the pellet dewormer in the past, it may be prudent to switch dewormer classes anyway. The active ingredient in deworming rations is most often morantel tartrate or pyrantel or something like that, which is in the nicotinic anthelmintic family...though Safe Guard makes one that contains fenbendazole, but more on that in a sec..

Now, assuming that it's a morantel- or pyrantel-based product, that leaves you with the white wormers (safe guard, panacur, valbazen, etc) and the _ectin family (ivomec, cydectin, eprinex, etc)..

If it's a Safe Guard pellet dewormer with fenbendazole, you're looking at either an _ectin, one of the morantel/pyrantel dewormers, or a levamisole dewormer.. Of the three, I'd choose an _ectin simply because the morantel/pyrantel is usually ration dewormer (of which I've already expressed my dislike) and because levamisole is dangnear impossible to find these days.

Unfortunately, you don't have the label...in that case, I'd go with an _ectin like Ivomec injectable 1%, dosed orally @ 3ml/100lb, repeated in about 10 days.

But, that's just me!

Should we get a fecal test done or just try that?

Running a fecal exam is never a bad idea, as it's usually fairly inexpensive and you'll at least have a baseline parasite load and know what kinds of worms you're dealing with. You could even get a cocci count while you're at it...

Checking their eyelids, too, using the FAMACHA system is also a good idea, though it primarily just tells you how they're doing in terms of their haemonchus contortus load -- aka, barberpole worms. That may sound a little silly to be checking just for one worm, but suffice it to say that as parasites go, barberpoles are quite possibly a goat's #1 enemy..

My advice would be that if they look anemic at all, worm now and ask questions later.

I checked into alfalfa hay and it's not available nearvy, but pellets and cubes are. Cubes didn't seem a good idea, and we could pellets to combine with their food or just stick with what we've got.

Let me preface this by saying that I've never used alfalfa pellets, either, and they could be the greatest thing since color TV..

However...imho...alfalfa and goats go so well together because alfalfa is a roughage that happens also to be high in calcium and protein, and low in phosphorus. If you grind it up into pellets, it's still high in calcium and phosphorus, but it's not roughage anymore.

That said, I don't really "get" the point of alfalfa pellets when there's already high protein, high calcium, low phosphorus pelleted feed out there in the form of the various specifically-formulated goat grain products.. Personally, I think those are better, because they have added trace minerals and vitamins and so forth....and they can usually be had cheaper than alfalfa pellets!

Yes, alfalfa is a natural food...but it's delivered in such an unnatural way that it loses a lot of the original benefit. IMHO, anyway.. I figure if I'm going to spend $X on goat feed, I'm going to get as much out of it as possible.. Alfalfa pellets just don't stack up when you look at it that way -- but it's GREAT as hay!

I know that's probably confusing, but...well, it's just my $.02.

Take it for exactly what it cost ya.

 

[Roll farms]

Beautiful, I looooove the black / white but the spotted one's gorgeous as well.
Congrats!

 

[ksalvagno]

If you use a pelleted feed type of wormer, you have to make sure that the goats eat the appropriate amount all at once. So you are counting on them to like the feed and eat all of it. I prefer injectible or liquid that I can measure out and quickly give and know that they got the right amount.

I would suggest taking the fecals into the vet and see if you have anything. If your girls happen to have no parasites, then there is no reason to worm them. If they do have parasites, then you want to worm with the proper wormers. Parasites can become resistant to wormers if used too often or inappropriately.

Also find out from the vet or a local goat breeder what worming protocols are used in your area. Then you can get your goats on a proper worming schedule. It is important that you use a worming protocol for your area because different parasites are prevalent in different areas.

 

[warthog]

Is there a problem feeding oats to goats?

 

[freemotion]

I feed whole oats, barley, and sunflower seeds as my main grain mix. I have for years. I have been soaking it to increase the nutrient availability and sprouting it a bit, too, to increase the protein levels. It works well for me. I have no wethers or bucks, though, so I have no clue if this would work for them. I will keep a buck for 2-3 months to breed my does this year, and will just feed him whatever he is being fed by his current owners then sell him "down the river" when his job is done. I also don't show or breed purebreds, I just want hardy homestead goats. My goals are different from most.

Whole grains fed to chickens dramatically reduces incidence of coccidiosis, btw.

 

[cmjust0]

Is there a problem feeding oats to goats?

Oats are low calcium, high phosphorus...like, 1:7, Ca. Most goat grains are mixed 2:1, Ca to prevent urinary calculi.

Probably not as much of a problem if you're feeding does, but I'd keep it away from wethers unless you could balance it out with something else.

 

[freemotion]

Is there a problem feeding oats to goats?

Oats are low calcium, high phosphorus...like, 1:7, Ca. Most goat grains are mixed 2:1, Ca to prevent urinary calculi.

Probably not as much of a problem if you're feeding does, but I'd keep it away from wethers unless you could balance it out with something else.

Alfalfa?

 

[cmjust0]

Is there a problem feeding oats to goats?

Oats are low calcium, high phosphorus...like, 1:7, Ca. Most goat grains are mixed 2:1, Ca to prevent urinary calculi.

Probably not as much of a problem if you're feeding does, but I'd keep it away from wethers unless you could balance it out with something else.

Alfalfa?

Perhaps, or clover. Beet pulp shreds are about 6:1, Ca, based on my reading.. Soybean hulls are higher in calcium than phosphporus, too, if I recall correctly, but fairly low in protein...can't remember the specific numbers on soybean hulls right off hand. Kale is balanced about 3:1, though I know there's such a thing as 'kale poisoning' which somehow leads to hemolytic anemia (just like acute copper toxicity -- BAD) so........

All in all, though, what it basically* comes down to is weight....grams of Ca versus grams of P.. If you take something that's 1% calcium and 6% phosphorus (just for instance) and mix it 50/50 by weight with something that's 1.2% calcium and .2% phosphorus, you're still WAY heavy on phosphorus -- even though it may initially look like you balanced a 1:6 with a 6:1.

My best advice would be to do the research on the ingredient and break out the calculator..



* If you really wanna start throwing wrenches into things, consider the bioavailability of each ingredient's particular form of calcium and phosphorus (and everything else).. Beet pulp, for instance, is higher in oxalates, which bind calcium and make it unavailable to the animal...so, is it really 6:1?. :/

 

[freemotion]

Wow, I will only keep girls and give them a very, very varied diet always. You get into the most trouble with any animal, including us, if you eat a very limited number of foods and if they are processed.