Ram aggression question.

BlueMoonFarms

True BYH Addict
Joined
Jun 18, 2012
Messages
959
Reaction score
222
Points
243
Location
Massachusetts
Ok, long story short my ram Dominic is fine with his buddies again, however he has begun testing us.
He gave me a gentle but in the butt, and I grabbed him threw him on his back and shoved the ram shield back on him.
With the ram shield on he attempted to do the same thing to my husband. He got miffed that my husband was not feeding him quick enough and backed up, tried to move forward and of course failed. Scared the life out of my hubby because im always warning him to watch the rams.
Then he is challenging our LGD every now and then. Mara wont do anything unless he hurts her, and then she will bite his horns and wrap her paw up around his neck to hold him there until he calms down. Its actually really cool to watch her do this. (not cool that she has to obviously)
Anyway, the question is how much of this is typical ram behavior coming out of breeding season? And how long should I watch his behavior before I call it quits and replace him?
Is there anyway to change the behavior? (I don't think so but its worth an ask)
He is 2 years old, Shetland ram.
 

alsea1

True BYH Addict
Joined
Dec 15, 2012
Messages
1,709
Reaction score
502
Points
243
Location
Alsea, Oregon
I don't know a lot about rams, but it seems the older they get the more they change behaviorally.
My current ram is two now and has not been aggressive. My first ram was okay for awhile, but then decided to take me on. He now has been eaten.
As with any animal each one is different. My solution was to get a hot shot and I showed it to him when I entered the pen. He watched me but did not charge me. With that said he was big enough that I decided I could not live with that. So in the freezer he went.
I don't know if its a training thing either. I think rams and bucks just are. Just depends on the testosterone level. With that said the better breeding animals need to have that push in order to be good breeders.
I have a really nice Nigerian dwarf buck who is very mild mannered. I wish he was a bit more opinionated as my doe does not take him very seriously. LOL I have noted that when she appears to be cycling he will go up to her and try to smooze her and she head butts him and he goes Okay never mind and walks away. I know he is able to breed as he produces kids but my doe is such a bossy thing and seems to need that chasing in order to decide.
 

bonbean01

Herd Master
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
5,192
Reaction score
839
Points
363
Location
Northeast Mississippi
I've not had a ram yet that I could trust...some worse than others....worst made it into the freezer...have tried to raise them to avoid this problem, but our set up is small and I'm guessing too much close contact in the winter months? Use the hot prod and he only needed to be zapped twice to learn that one...I was wimpy with the first zap and afraid to hurt him...he came at a full charge again and I zapped him full charge...since then, now I have to carry it and have not had to use it...when he sees it, he keeps his distance, but I know that if I don't carry it...I am at risk. A long wand on the hot prod works well here...I would suggest you get one asap and use it...and if he gets worse with age (which I also noticed Alsea), he will chill out in the freezer.
 

BlueMoonFarms

True BYH Addict
Joined
Jun 18, 2012
Messages
959
Reaction score
222
Points
243
Location
Massachusetts
I think a hot prod is in our future. He is always so sweet that the behavior was expected, but not at the same time.
My husband will feel better with a hot prod anyway. We have a small farm to so maybe the small space is what's bugging him. Who knows.
Either way hopefully this will help fix his issues. Thank you guys!
 

bonbean01

Herd Master
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
5,192
Reaction score
839
Points
363
Location
Northeast Mississippi
Funny thing is...we gave this current ram a scratch under his chin, he liked it and wagged his tail, then backed up to charge....huh? That didn't make sense, but I've been hurt and DH has had xrays for broken bones from our first ram...best to never take any chances...not worth it, and a dead farmer can't be a good farmer. Glad you are getting the long wand hot prod!!! :)
 

purplequeenvt

Herd Master
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Messages
2,485
Reaction score
4,561
Points
373
Location
Rineyville, KY
I know lots of people use a hot prod with success, but I feel like in a lot of cases it may not actually be helping. It may solve the immediate problem, but now you've created a ram that doesn't trust you at all. He doesn't respect you now, but after a few shocks, you will have lost respect AND trust. I like there to be a certain amount of trust between me and my rams and if I went in there with a hot prod and shocked them wherever they came too near, I think that is when I'd start having issues.

We bought a ram a few years ago who was aggressive. Since I couldn't go in the pen without being afraid that he would butt, I started catching him and putting him on a halter whenever I needed to do something in the pen. I'd take him with me and if I needed both hands to work on something, I'd tie him up nearby. When I was done, I'd untie him and off we'd go.

I did this with him for several months and wouldn't you know, he stopped trying to butt. He got to the point that my dad and I were able to be in the pen building a shed with all the rams gathered around watching and he was completely relaxed. He had learned that humans were in charge and that I wasn't going to hurt him (fear was the main trigger for his aggression) so there was no need to stress. The people had things under control.

I'd encourage you to try this method before resorting to electroshock therapy. It will take longer, but if he responds to it, both of you will be happier. If it doesn't work, then you can try the prod.

All of our rams (ones that were born and raised on our farm anyways) are handled from day one. They are hugged and kissed a lot, but in almost 15 years of raising sheep we have never had an aggressive ram from our stock. They are still rams and I do not encourage people to trust them unconditionally because even the sweetest ram can have a stupid moment, but as a general rule, I have no issues going in the ram pen. Even during breeding season our rams are gentlemen.
 

Bossroo

True BYH Addict
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
1,416
Reaction score
636
Points
221
When I worked at a University where we had sexual behavior and fertility experiments with over 100 rams at a time. The rams were from half wild range rams to bottle babies obtained from an auction yard or from local farmers. The biggest problems with aggression to humans is when a bummer ram is raised as a pet and handled and loved on all the time then used for breeding . Upon sexual maturity and nearing breeding season, they have no respect for people and treat them as equals or a competitor for the right to breed the ewes , result is aggressive to humans that they can and will hurt. That goes for goats, cattle, horses, roosters, etc. too. I handled these rams every day ... halter broke everyone of them and when we needed a ram to do a sex behavior session with a flock of 30 ewes, I would enter the pen and select the wanted ram for that day, I haltered a ram without most of them not having to be chased down as they had great respect for us by then and led him out to the large ewe pen. Then when done in half hour, I entered the pen, walked up to the ram took his halter and made an exit. We also had to take each ram and put them into a raised stanchion to collect semen using an elecro- ejaculator to evaluate their semen. I never used a hot shot. Any ram that showed aggression to me or anyone else when I or another person would enter their pen, I would immediately " attack" him knock him down and sit on him as if I was to kill him NOW. They learned real fast to not mess with a human and to always show respect NOW . Getting a brocken leg, torn leg ligament, or spine injury would make for a BAD day. :p
 

L J

Loving the herd life
Joined
Jan 26, 2015
Messages
117
Reaction score
146
Points
113
I'm starting to have this problem w my bottle baby, the geep "ram". He is fine w my significant other (but to him, that is mom, he is obsessed w her), but me- if I stop him from nibbling on me or I walk away- the little **** will but me. I mean little, he is only 21 lbs. I'd hate to flip him on his back since he is so small, but I sure as heck don't want him doing this when he is 100lbs or more. I spanked him on his butt, LOL.

I guess I could castrate him, but to be perfectly honest, I was hoping to see what kind of horns he grew before doing that.
 

SheepGirl

Master of Sheep
Golden Herd Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2011
Messages
3,625
Reaction score
909
Points
343
Location
Frederick, Maryland
Nibbling as ram lambs is a sign of aggression. Good for you to stop it. A bad thing he does in response is try to ram you. You need to put a stop to that. Castrate him now or it will only get worse. He likely won't grow any horns at all, and if does, he will still grow them as a wether. You will need to teach him to respect until you get him castrated, spanking him on his butt won't do anything as that's not where they're disciplined by members of their species. They knock each other on the heads, ram into each others sides, etc. You need to be rough with him like another animal would be.
 
  • Like
Reactions: L J
Top