sheep finally! mixed breed, size, and choosing ram questions

[ohiogoatgirl]

ok so I am finally "this close!" to having sheep of my own!

the woman is a member of the spinners and weavers guild I am in. I have talked sheep with her before. well last I talked with her she had just under 200 head after lambing and now she is really working on getting down to just a dozen or so and still has plenty more than 100 head. so now is the time! I am working on my smaller pasture fence and since its plenty grown up it should be plenty to keep em busy and over winter and until I can get my big 5acre pasture fixed up.

the woman has adults and lambs all varying ages. I think getting younger ones will be best so that I can work with them and get em used to me and all. although I cant promise that darn ol 'sheeposis aquire-osis' wont kick up and make me bring home one or two older ewes

so here is my question...
the flock is quite mixed breeds. she has had sheep over 30 years and its all heritage breeds and always bred for good fleeces. which is good to me because that's what I want. so they are a lot of Icelandic, and bit of Jacob, Shetland, etc. and there is a little bit of tunis in there from years ago. and she wanted to be able to work em all herself so they are all smaller sheep.

I wonder what ram I should be thinking of for the future breeding? closer to breeding time I would want to buy a ram. so my choices are to 1) buy a ram from this same woman, 2) splurge and buy a really lovely registered super fine wool Shetland ram from another person in the guild, 3) keep an eye out on CL and farm ads and at auctions for a nice ram or ram lamb, I wouldn't be adverse to a bottle baby if he looked very nice and promising.

also, in the future I would kinda like to work on breeding a meatier build so I could do some meat lambs and not have to feed em up nearly a full year or more like a lot of the Icelandic and Shetland people I am reading about.
so if in the future I want to cross a meatier build ram to my ewes how do I decide if he'll be too big?
I mean obviously I wont go with anything that clearly outsizes the ewes and I don't want to push chancing lambing problems with huge lambs.

I don't know if it makes much of a difference but I was planning on putting the ram in with the ewes about Dec. 10 for due date about May 6 which for this area means pretty good spring weather and little chance of snow. I don't want to have lambing earlier than mid-April. We've done February goat kidding and I do not want to do that!
*ETA: I just re-read that most seasonal breeding will be oct-nov /: would mid-late November be better than early December breeding? I will ask the woman when we go to see her flock when she has bred before but I really don't want to do real cold weather lambing if it can be avoided.

thanks!

 

[goatgurl]

congratulations on your almost sheep. I'm no help with what wool sheep you need because all my sheep are katahdin hair sheep but i can tell you that the best ram you can get is so important for your whole herd, present and future. good luck

 

[ohiogoatgirl]

thanks goatgurl we had dairy goats for many years and I have other animals too so I am well versed with things just not worked with sheep much in person yet. lol that's why I like to double check and ask here etc before I do things a lot of the time.

I nearly forgot that there is also a woman who has a small flock that's literally around the block from me! albeit, its a very large country block here I just re-found her number and will have to see if I can go visit her some time as she has icelandics.

 

[goatgurl]

in looking at your name i gathered you had goats. what kind do you have? i have lamanchas and love them.

 

[ohiogoatgirl]

I had dairy goats. saanens and mixed breeds.

 

[norseofcourse]

Congrats on your almost-sheep! What are your goals for the sheep? I'm curious why you would use a Shetland ram on 'mostly Icelandics'? Icelandics have a double coat; Shetlands do not. Not sure what happens when you cross that. Both breeds do have a great variety of colors and patterns, if you're going for natural-colored wools.

I didn't know a lot of Icelandic and Shetland owners feed their lambs for a full year or more (then again, I don't know too many other sheep owners beyond here). There's plenty of variation even within a breed. Last year I had 3 lambs processed at the age of 9 months, and hanging weights averaged 44 lbs. This year, I will be taking lambs in at about 7 months. Two of them, Rose's twins, are huge! I swear they are as big as she is. Her single last year was also stocky with a good growth rate, and I kept her. I do feed some grain, but not a lot - Rose just raises big lambs. I am hoping her daughter follows in her footsteps.

If the seller keeps records, or remembers, or you can see the current lambs, you could choose sheep who have larger than typical lambs, or their lambs, and that might get you a head start towards a larger sheep/meatier build.

December should still be fine for breeding, you may have really anxious sheep by then lol! I'm putting Elding in Nov. 11 for lambs early to mid April, and the weather should be fine. I've had March lambs and they were fine. Keep in mind the ewes might not settle right away after the ram goes in, especially if they are ewe lambs.

Good luck - it's exciting, isn't it?

 

[ohiogoatgirl]

thanks

my goals are 1) fleeces for myself and selling, 2) extra ram lambs become wethers for sale/meat, 3) depending on how things are going when I breed and close to lambing if I want to bother with once a day milking at all.

since her flock is mixed anyway I figure I will settle my ideas and plans more once I see them and feel the fleeces. and since my reading has said that for crossing fleece types you will loose the double coating of the icelandics in the first crossing but if you cross those offspring back to Icelandic you will get it back again in their offspring. so some could be double coated and some not, I was so excited and full of other questions at the time talking with her I didn't think of it then.

well I am on a lot of different facebook groups and online forums so from reading through all the old threads here and reading up on the Icelandic breeders and Shetland breeders groups there I would say definitely most of the people say that they keep their freezer bound lambs at least into winter a couple months and a lot still say keep em until spring/summer to fatten em up more and to get more meat with little to no difference in the meat anyhow.
but for my small starting and somewhat barn space limitations for at least a year or two more I would rather eat a little smaller lambs or sell em rather than take up the barn space and feedin out hay all winter to many more animals than needed. processing a couple small young lambs here would be great but for selling any I think i'd want some meatier bigger ones. or at least a few bigger ewes and have smaller lambs and bigger lambs for both options.
plus if I lamb starting early May and if nothing else sell the remaining meat lambs off in oct-nov they will be 6-7 months old and be plenty big enough plus if I shear em first i'll get the bonus lamb fleeces.

that makes sense about them not breeding right away. with the goats the girls never came into standing heat until the buck was in at least a week. that makes sense.. I will make a note for myself, maybe I should plan to put the ram in like around thanksgiving? that way they will have time to come into it and breed abouts the last week of November onwards.

Shetland ram-
pros: 1) two breeders that are fairly close, 2) one breeder has super fine wool shetlands and would probably make really lovely soft lambs and be good for my fleece uses,
cons: 1) the super fine wool breeder has small shetlands (though I've not seen all that many in person) and doesn't breed his ewes until 2yr/old.. thus not good for my meaty size planning,

Icelandic ram-
pros: 1) tend to be at least a little bigger than shetlands, 2) two breeders fairly close, 3) are supposed to be triple purposed and thus good for my meaty size planning and my possible milking planning,
cons: 1) I haven't visited the one breeder close to me yet to know if i'd want animals from there,

other breed ram-
pros: could be many depending on breed and characteristics.
cons: could also be many lol.. mainly I am worried if lambs would be too big and cause birthing problems. although I wouldn't breed a ram that is clearly much bigger than the ewes or like a big wide headed to a narrow headed breed, like babydoll to Shetland, because I'd hate to loose an ewe over a lamb having a big ol head. I know that would be better to do like Shetland ram over babydoll ewe for something like that.


the woman has been selling off the known trouble makers and consistent health problems etc first when her buyer comes so I am fairly confident that I will get to see the best of the flock to choose from. i'll be bringing a pen and a couple sheets of paper or notebook to write things down when I go.
lol tryin to make a list of things I need to ask

 

[Roving Jacobs]

Personally my May lambs/kids have never grown as well as my earlier lambs. I live up in the snow belt and I get not wanting to lamb in the cold but I've been creeping my lambing back a week or two every year because those early lambs just do better on my land. Also lamb prices are higher in August/Sept so it can be a good idea to have lambs ready to go by then. My muslim customers want 6+ month old lambs in mid-September for their eid and are willing to pay a premium for them.

 

[secuono]

What about a Southdown ram? Not Babydoll, but the big one. They should be meaty with good wool. Heck, Babydolls should also be stocky and meaty....
Some of the Babydoll Southdowns out west are huge! I just sold a ram that was originally from the west, he was 24in, very thick guy.

 

[ohiogoatgirl]

thanks guys. gives me something to think on.

@Roving Jacobs I hadn't thought about that. hmm neat. I guess I will think on that more and if I get young ewes I will mull it over and have a good decision and plan by fall. and if I get yearling or bit older ewes maybe I will go middle ground and breed for lambing in early april? if I put a ram in about the first week of Nov then lambing would be estimated starting first week of April.

@secuono I have actually thought a bit on babydoll crosses. and since I am mainly in for wool I have even found some things posted on forums/fb groups from a few people ho have had Icelandic/babydoll crosses so I can kinda see what possible wool might be like. so that is definitely in the possibilities.