P.O. in MO
Overrun with beasties
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I apologize for the length of this but this is a little complicated so wanted to provide enough info that everyone who reads this(including me) will hopefully understand it.
VickieB said:
When I started with my rabbits my kits were pretty small too. I raised them up to 12 weeks, and only had one or two make the 5 pound mark. Then I had a couple of small litters. Those rabbits made it to 5 pounds at 8 weeks. When you figure out how much you spend on feed that last month, and you think of the extra work cleaning after that many for that extra month, you realize the importance of getting the kits to dispatch date at 8 weeks. For a while I was culling my litters down to 6 just so I could have them ready to dispatch by that 8 week mark. But then my doe had 8, and I decided not to mess with it and at 2 1/2 weeks 9 kits came hopping out of the nest box... smh (guess I overlooked one) At 8 weeks they all weighed between 4 1/2 pounds to 5 pounds. I dispatched 3. Today I weighed them (they are 9 weeks today) and they weighed between 5 to 5 1/2 pounds.
What breed are you talking about above?
VickieB said:
Several months ago my largest doe had a small litter, and every one of the kits had strong Altex markings (She is 1/2 Altex). They were huge bunnies. There was a buck and 3 does. At 8 weeks the buck weighed in at 5 pounds and the does weighed in at 5 1/2 pounds. I kept the does for breeding. They are 3 1/2 months old now and are weighing between 8 3/4 pounds to 10 pounds. I have an Altex buck I want to breed them to. I'll have to let you know how it goes with them. My goal is to see that 5 pounds at 8 weeks is the norm.
If the doe was 1/2 Altex what breed was the buck?
I am confused (not abnormal for me). I did a search on Altex this is the first thing that came up:
Altex rabbits are a commercial rabbit breed intended to produce bucks for use as the sires of "terminal cross" meat rabbits. Altex terminal cross fryers gain weight faster and go to market sooner. In less-developed countries, they represent better nutrition for people through enhanced rabbit production. - See more at: http://www.raising-rabbits.com/altex-rabbits.html#sthash.T3SWABdC.dpuf
Not knowing exactly what they meant by terminal cross I looked around and found:
A terminal cross is one of which the offspring are not going to be used for breeding programs or genetic improvement. Usually these offspring are market animals.
So in this scenario you would breed a Altex to a NZW(in my case) and the crossbred offspring would be the end of the line and market(my freezer) animals.
Then I found this:
Terminal crossbreeding is a breeding system used in animal production. It involves two (different) breeds of animal that have been crossbred. The female offspring(this by PO: this is the 1/2 altex doe she is talking about) is then mated with a male (the terminal male) of the third breed producing the terminal crossbred animal.[1]
The first crossbreed produce a superior animal due to hybrid vigor. Often this crossbreed is part of a rotational crossbreeding scheme, it is then called a rotaterminalcrossbreeding system if it incorporates terminal crossbreeding. By mating the crossbreed with a third breed farther enhances hybrid vigor
So I am assuming that this is what VickieB is doing. She is using a crossbred doe to produce these offspring that are doing so well on quick development. If this is true run thru how you got where you are VickieB. What other breed did you use to achieve the 1/2 Altex doe and what did you breed her to to get where your at?
PO said: If this is true then the doe kits you are going to breed back to the altex buck should actually be the end of the line. Not sure though since your breeding them back to an altex you may be doing the right thing. I would try it just to find out.
Again, sorry about the length of this but would like to understand this, it sounds like the way to go if you want to improve your productivity.
One last thing I found at Raising Rabbits.com that goes into a little more info about the terminal crossbreeding.
How to Use Terminal Crossing
with an Altex Sire
The word "terminal" means "end of the line." In the case of terminal crosses, this means the offspring are your product (market fryers), and none are saved for replacement breeders. It’s the end of the line for the offspring of the Altex sire.
Why?
If the terminal cross offspring are saved for breeding stock, you will lose the genetic advantage provided by the terminal sire. You will reduce the efficiency and potentially the profitability of your herd, because the marketability of the offspring will revert to as before with each successive generation. In this case, you might as well simply stick with NZW.
The Altex sire will likely be capable of siring offspring for years; when your Altex sire becomes aged, simply purchase a new Altex herd sire. Also note however: in hot climates, younger bucks experience somewhat less sensitivity to temporary heat sterility, and may be better able to sire litters through the hot summer months.
For ideal results, cross the Altex SIRE with a New Zealand White or Californian DAM.
It’s a marriage made in heaven!
PO said: Again, this contradicts the rotaterminal crossbreeding explained above but that's the internet for you, lots of different opinions. Apparently the rotaterminal crossbreeding is working for VickieB. You have to go thru the terminal crossbreeding to get to the other so a person could decide at the offspring of the first altex cross if they wanted to take it a step farther. Besides you could butcher some of this litter and save a couple of does to just to experiment with.
VickieB said:
When I started with my rabbits my kits were pretty small too. I raised them up to 12 weeks, and only had one or two make the 5 pound mark. Then I had a couple of small litters. Those rabbits made it to 5 pounds at 8 weeks. When you figure out how much you spend on feed that last month, and you think of the extra work cleaning after that many for that extra month, you realize the importance of getting the kits to dispatch date at 8 weeks. For a while I was culling my litters down to 6 just so I could have them ready to dispatch by that 8 week mark. But then my doe had 8, and I decided not to mess with it and at 2 1/2 weeks 9 kits came hopping out of the nest box... smh (guess I overlooked one) At 8 weeks they all weighed between 4 1/2 pounds to 5 pounds. I dispatched 3. Today I weighed them (they are 9 weeks today) and they weighed between 5 to 5 1/2 pounds.
What breed are you talking about above?
VickieB said:
Several months ago my largest doe had a small litter, and every one of the kits had strong Altex markings (She is 1/2 Altex). They were huge bunnies. There was a buck and 3 does. At 8 weeks the buck weighed in at 5 pounds and the does weighed in at 5 1/2 pounds. I kept the does for breeding. They are 3 1/2 months old now and are weighing between 8 3/4 pounds to 10 pounds. I have an Altex buck I want to breed them to. I'll have to let you know how it goes with them. My goal is to see that 5 pounds at 8 weeks is the norm.
If the doe was 1/2 Altex what breed was the buck?
I am confused (not abnormal for me). I did a search on Altex this is the first thing that came up:
Altex rabbits are a commercial rabbit breed intended to produce bucks for use as the sires of "terminal cross" meat rabbits. Altex terminal cross fryers gain weight faster and go to market sooner. In less-developed countries, they represent better nutrition for people through enhanced rabbit production. - See more at: http://www.raising-rabbits.com/altex-rabbits.html#sthash.T3SWABdC.dpuf
Not knowing exactly what they meant by terminal cross I looked around and found:
A terminal cross is one of which the offspring are not going to be used for breeding programs or genetic improvement. Usually these offspring are market animals.
So in this scenario you would breed a Altex to a NZW(in my case) and the crossbred offspring would be the end of the line and market(my freezer) animals.
Then I found this:
Terminal crossbreeding is a breeding system used in animal production. It involves two (different) breeds of animal that have been crossbred. The female offspring(this by PO: this is the 1/2 altex doe she is talking about) is then mated with a male (the terminal male) of the third breed producing the terminal crossbred animal.[1]
The first crossbreed produce a superior animal due to hybrid vigor. Often this crossbreed is part of a rotational crossbreeding scheme, it is then called a rotaterminalcrossbreeding system if it incorporates terminal crossbreeding. By mating the crossbreed with a third breed farther enhances hybrid vigor
So I am assuming that this is what VickieB is doing. She is using a crossbred doe to produce these offspring that are doing so well on quick development. If this is true run thru how you got where you are VickieB. What other breed did you use to achieve the 1/2 Altex doe and what did you breed her to to get where your at?
PO said: If this is true then the doe kits you are going to breed back to the altex buck should actually be the end of the line. Not sure though since your breeding them back to an altex you may be doing the right thing. I would try it just to find out.
Again, sorry about the length of this but would like to understand this, it sounds like the way to go if you want to improve your productivity.
One last thing I found at Raising Rabbits.com that goes into a little more info about the terminal crossbreeding.
How to Use Terminal Crossing
with an Altex Sire
The word "terminal" means "end of the line." In the case of terminal crosses, this means the offspring are your product (market fryers), and none are saved for replacement breeders. It’s the end of the line for the offspring of the Altex sire.
Why?
If the terminal cross offspring are saved for breeding stock, you will lose the genetic advantage provided by the terminal sire. You will reduce the efficiency and potentially the profitability of your herd, because the marketability of the offspring will revert to as before with each successive generation. In this case, you might as well simply stick with NZW.
The Altex sire will likely be capable of siring offspring for years; when your Altex sire becomes aged, simply purchase a new Altex herd sire. Also note however: in hot climates, younger bucks experience somewhat less sensitivity to temporary heat sterility, and may be better able to sire litters through the hot summer months.
For ideal results, cross the Altex SIRE with a New Zealand White or Californian DAM.
It’s a marriage made in heaven!
- The Altex buck confers size and growth rate (marketability)
- The NZW or CAL doe consumes less feed than would an Altex dam, produces more milk, and can wean more offspring.
- CALs and NZW have been used for decades in commercial rabbit production. The dams are known for raising large litters and for ample lactation.
- ALL the offspring should go to market
- Market day should arrive on average up to one week sooner than is typical for a purebred, or a CALxNZW herd
PO said: Again, this contradicts the rotaterminal crossbreeding explained above but that's the internet for you, lots of different opinions. Apparently the rotaterminal crossbreeding is working for VickieB. You have to go thru the terminal crossbreeding to get to the other so a person could decide at the offspring of the first altex cross if they wanted to take it a step farther. Besides you could butcher some of this litter and save a couple of does to just to experiment with.
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