Milking questions

[babsbag]

From what I have been told it is the length of lactation as a FF that can supposedly set the stage for life. I have also read that that isn't true. I would just love to see the science behind all of this. I just read this.

If a doe is dried off either longer or shorter than 2 months between cycles, it will affect her next, and ONLY her next, cycle negatively. Drying her off for less that 2 months before she freshens again doesn't give her enough time to shed old cells and make new ones. Drying her off for longer than two months before she freshens again causes some of the new cells to atrophy, again reducing production. In either case, it ONLY affects the cycle following THAT dry off period.

Does shed, and grow, new milk producing cells every cycle.

 

[OneFineAcre]

I have heard this before but have also read otherwise and since I have no first hand experience I don't have an opinion but would love to see an actual study that has been done. But how would they ever do a study on this since every goat is unique? If they dry off a FF early and she dries up early the next year what's to say that she wouldn't do that anyway? Have you seen any studies on this? And what is considered dry? Many of my goats are still raising kids when I am done milking for the year so while they aren't "dry" they aren't fully producing either.

I have also read this "Some research has shown that the buck a doe is bred to actually influences the amount of mammary tissue that develops since it it the fetus (with that bucks genes) that sends signals to the mammary tissue to form."

If that is the case why would some dairies breed their FF to boers?

Zamia and Rosemary when I bought them had freshened once and dried off quickly. They had a fairly steep lactation curb the next year. We milked through it and it has gotten better each year.
I think @Southern by choice bought a doe who had been dried of early by previous owner and her experience is the same.

So I said "can/will"?? I don't know that there is any actual data, just anecdotal.

Some people breed FF to boers because they don't keep any kids from FF. They want to see the 2nd udder before they retain any kids. So, they breed to boers for better carcass size.

With that said, I just heard the other day that some people think that some may be crossing alpines to boers and then registering them as recorded grades to get flatter bone. You are absolutely not supposed to register a grade if you know it has boer I it, but you know how some folks are.

 

[NH homesteader]

Interesting! Now I will have to see what I can find...

 

[Green Acres Farm]

From what I have been told it is the length of lactation as a FF that can supposedly set the stage for life. I have also read that that isn't true. I would just love to see the science behind all of this. I just read this.

If a doe is dried off either longer or shorter than 2 months between cycles, it will affect her next, and ONLY her next, cycle negatively. Drying her off for less that 2 months before she freshens again doesn't give her enough time to shed old cells and make new ones. Drying her off for longer than two months before she freshens again causes some of the new cells to atrophy, again reducing production. In either case, it ONLY affects the cycle following THAT dry off period.

Does shed, and grow, new milk producing cells every cycle.

It is so confusing.
I also read, it is better to dry your doe off cold turkey as tapering off will lead to not very good udder capacity later... Any opinions on that?

 

[Goat Whisperer]

With that said, I just heard the other day that some people think that some may be crossing alpines to boers and then registering them as recorded grades to get flatter bone. You are absolutely not supposed to register a grade if you know it has boer I it, but you know how some folks are.

WHAT???

 

[Goat Whisperer]

In our experience, does that were dried off early DID have shorter lactation's in the following years.

I would never wean a doe cold turkey, but that is just me. I know a lady who has been in alpines a very long time. She knows it all. She said she was trying to dry a doe off and the doe just wouldn't dry up. This goats udder had gotten so full and the doe was in great discomfort. As she started releasing the pressure, the doe peed and peed and peed and peed. Her udder had gotten so full the doe couldn't urinate, had this gone on any longer the goat would have died.

With the milking 1x a day or 2x a day.... Every goat is different. I don't think you can just put a number on what the reduction will be.
Some still milk ok, others drop but will slowly build back up, others will start drying up immediately. Every breed and every goat is different

 

[Green Acres Farm]

In our experience, does that were dried off early DID have shorter lactation's in the following years.

I would never wean a doe cold turkey, but that is just me. I know a lady who has been in alpines a very long time. She knows it all. She said she was trying to dry a doe off and the doe just wouldn't dry up. This goats udder had gotten so full and the doe was in great discomfort. As she started releasing the pressure, the doe peed and peed and peed and peed. Her udder had gotten so full the doe couldn't urinate, had this gone on any longer the goat would have died.

With the milking 1x a day or 2x a day.... Every goat is different. I don't think you can just put a number on what the reduction will be.
Some still milk ok, others drop but will slowly build back up, others will start drying up immediately. Every breed and every goat is different

I think @Goat Whisperer pretty much summed it up.

 

[babsbag]

I can tell you that milking every other day is not recommended. And seriously, on a side note, I have problems with cheese that needs to set a curd, like Feta, when I milk every other day. It won't make a good curd.

I dry most of my does off cold turkey. No grain, no milking, but then I guess that would change if they wouldn't dry off, just depends on the doe. I will let you know next year about the short lactations as I have quite a few does out there that have not been milked beyond about 6 months, if that. Time will tell for sure.

With that said, I just heard the other day that some people think that some may be crossing alpines to boers and then registering them as recorded grades to get flatter bone. You are absolutely not supposed to register a grade if you know it has boer I it, but you know how some folks are.

Some people...the reason for DNA...I know someone selling a Boer doeling that is reg. percentage and she has these tiny little elf ears...I wonder what she is mixed with.? Hmmm

But if there is any truth to the buck supplying genes that increase the mammary in the doe (not the kids) then breeding Boer would not be a good idea.

 

[Southern by choice]

I do believe you can "train" an udder.
Yes we shorted a few does ... we sold them with full disclosure and told the people what we had learned. Those goats went as "soap-goats"... they didn't want or need family milkers but enough for soap.

As far as the once a day. Babs sent me the article a few years back or whenever it was... I thought it was very interesting BUT...

I believe it would have far more impact on a Nigerian than mini or standard breeds. I also think it may be beneficial to reduce time for a dairy environment where you have employees to pay but not necessarily the best for home milking.

I also think if you have some kind of setback...like a goat gets sick or travel etc, the once a day milker may not recover production wise. The twice a day milker has better chance of bringing that production back up.

Like OFA and GW said every goat is different.

As far as cold turkey drying off- I think it is a terrible way to dry a doe off. In nature it does not happen like that unless the offspring is eaten by a predator. Pretty much most mammals gradually reduce.

I think you have a far greater chance of mastitis.

The story @Goat Whisperer mentioned was shocking to me when I heard it.

I know a lady who has been in alpines a very long time. She knows it all. She said she was trying to dry a doe off and the doe just wouldn't dry up. This goats udder had gotten so full and the doe was in great discomfort. As she started releasing the pressure, the doe peed and peed and peed and peed. Her udder had gotten so full the doe couldn't urinate, had this gone on any longer the goat would have died.

But let's say the goat is so full she starts leaking? That just increases the chances of bacteria getting up into the teat because a leaking teat is open orifices. NOT a good combo.

I dry most of my does off cold turkey. No grain, no milking,

This isn't a very fair comparison though as the goats are not milked every day or 2x day... every other day or longer is not producing the same volume... and I know you ... you will throw them on that stand if they get too full!

With that said, I just heard the other day that some people think that some may be crossing alpines to boers and then registering them as recorded grades to get flatter bone. You are absolutely not supposed to register a grade if you know it has boer I it, but you know how some folks are.

Well gee if they are gonna do that at least make it a decent animal like a Savanna or Kiko or Spanish, or New Zealand... something with parasite resistance and can actually raise their own kids and not die in kidding or of parasite or have 4 teats.

On a serious note - that would be a real shame and very disappointing.

 

[NH homesteader]

So glad I asked this and I have so much to think about now! So what is a full lactation for a Nigerian? It's 10 months typically for a standard right? Or did I remember that wrong?

@Goat Whisperer that is awful!

@Southern by choice good point about recovery of milking. I hadn't thought of that. And... Next year when I want to get into meat goats I'll be researching all this about boers... Hmm... I am having a hard time finding kikos around here but boers are easy to find. Perhaps not worth it by what you say!

@babsbag I'm interested to hear how it goes after this year! Every other day... Wow that's a new schedule! Ha ha