pre-purchase vet check

jdubya

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what should be included in a pre-purchase exam when buying a horse?
 

perchie.girl

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Depends on what you are going to use the horse for. How old the horse is too.

I bought the horse in my Avatar sight unseen except for video to see how she moved. No vet check... General health check and coggins because she was coming from a different state. She was perfect when she got here. I knew she was a winger from the video.... But that comes with Percherons because of their action.

It also depends on breed, or previous job. Quarter horses with tiny feet I worry about Navicular... Heavy necked breeds I worry about founder or previous episodes of founder. Founder episodes would show up in a regular health exam.

Sometimes just having a person well educated in horse conformation and experienced in feeling the gaits of the horse while riding.... is all you need.

I know not a specific check list.... But there are just too many variables involved.

If it were me.... when I rode it was for trail riding and the occasional fun show.... When I drive again the same.... trail and the occasional show. I dont use my horses hard. So a general health check is all I need and to have a four legged horse.... LOL.

deb
 

goodhors

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You can spend an amazing amount on a pre-purchase, as much as the horse costs! As Deb said, how do you plan to use the animal? For a working or performance horse, getting lots of work, you want to make sure his body is capable of what you will be asking. You the buyer, should have some skill in looking at body styles that will be able to do the work you want horse doing. Trail horse needs good sized hooves, proportionate to their body, because they will be covering a lot of miles. Need to be able to handle the impact and load of rider and gear, rough ground. Show horse, may not need that so much, though I ALWAYS recommend getting a horse with feet proportionate to his size. Such horses can be hard to find in many of the Western breeds, with that problem spreading to other disciplines because folk no longer know how to view a correct sized hoof these days. They think small hooves are "normal" because that is the most common type seen now.

You want an animal with as close to straight legs as possible, it lowers the chance of problems. You need to decide or ask the Vet, if deviations in travel of the leg during movement, will make it harder for horse to do the work you use him for. Deb said the horse winging, was not a problem for her uses, bought it anyway. Know that you will not be able to "fix" an older horse with trims or shoeing changes, though that might help if move easier or better. There is no fixing leg issues beyond the first few weeks of life on a foal. Legs will change greatly from foal to maturity, as body changes, horse gets used. But straight is straight, the leg column is all going in the same direction. "Corrective trimming" done on older horses may make his toe point forward, but horse is still not straight if his knees are going east and west. At this point in his life, his leg bones are set, so trying to "fix" him to look better, is messing up his bone alignment, cause other problems in wear and tear in the joints. Hind leg toes SHOULD be pointing outward a little, so they can go around his fronts when running. Does NOT mean those hind legs are "crooked" or cow-hocked, with toes outward a slight bit.

When you have chosen a horse for your purposes, you may want a heart and lungs check for soundness if he is going to be working hard. Some flexion testing of all legs, maybe some basic X-rays of hooves to check Navicular bones for clean bone, wear on it, hocks, knees, pasterns. Not 20 shots of each, but a nice clear view. You need "markers" in the photos, like a quarter or dime, for comparing size. Hoof shots are done with hoof up OFF the ground on wood blocks, marker in the picture. Talking to a good Farrier might be helpful, on what to have done. They have to work to keep the horses going, know where the angles are best for helping see inside the hoof or joints because they fix the lame horses.

Depending on the price of horse, how hard you will use it, you may want to not spend much with a PPE. Unless it is kind of an expensive purchase, or for insurance, PPE money doesn't really make it a better animal. Under $1000, I would not bother with PPE. Cost of x-rays is better spent on nice riding equipment and you will get more use of it! Animals do get wear and tear with age and use, body changes happen. For the $1000 to $3000 price, just ride and enjoy the animal as it is, because even with a PPE the horse can still get lame later on. No horse is perfect, doesn't matter what you spend to buy it. Many horses with less than perfect (show winning types) movement, still have long useable lives in many activities. Some of the ones with textbook, undesirable features are sound as a dollar for years and years, great temperments, go-anyplace fun animals to own. The issues they have never get in the way of them being sound and usable. Some of the prettiest horses can be unsound and no fun to own, but they passed their PPE with flying colors, then went down hill after.

I came up in using old fashioned criteria in picking horses. I want a sound body on sound legs, with big hooves under him. Body needs to be proportionate, suitable for what use I will put the horse to doing. I won't buy a 1500#, toothpick legged horse with 000 size hooves to travel 20+ miles on the trail a day or do Endurance Riding. I won't buy a stock horse body type to do Jumping or Fox Hunting with, going cross country. I won't buy a Draft cross for gymkhana games or high level Dressage, he is not suitable, though you will see folks trying to do that with such horses. A small horse, small feet, good temperament, might be just perfect for riding an hour or two each week in the ring, never going to go distances or need to carry you hours a day. My LAST worry is about how "cute" his face is, because that doesn't affect his ability to work. He needs NICE, kindly, big eyes, big nostrils, teeth that align to let him carry a bit easily. Proportionate in his body, with head/neck as 1/3, barrel as 1/3, loin to tail as 1/3, so he is fairly well balanced. A leg on each corner, not two legs coming out the same hole in his chest or rear end. No "friendly legs" that rub or hit each other in travel. I don't CARE how long his mane and tail are, unimportant compared to size of his hooves and knees and hocks. Color may matter if you have heat and sun, so they don't get sunburned with pink skin exposed or need grooming or washing so much if light colored.

If you feel you can't trust your judgement, then get a "basic" type PPE with a Vet. Use a HORSE Vet, who looks at a LOT of horses, not the dog Vet. Tell Vet what you want to use horse for, so they can say if he is SUITABLE for that use, or what is called "serviceably sound". That means your named uses won't hurt him, horse should stay sound doing THAT stuff. If you change how you use horse, he may not work well for that new use.

Sorry it got so long.
 
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jdubya

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thanks guys,

ive had horses most of my life, but ive only had pleasure horses, and have never paid more than $800 for one. my daughter is moving up from her playday horses and getting a bona fide barrel horse. the horse we're looking at is priced at $3000, which is a steal considering he's a finished barrel horse and runs 2d - 3d times. ive never gotten a ppe before, because ive never spent this much money on one.

thanks again for the help
 

goodhors

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Well, a specialty horse like that, probably needs some x-rays done before investing. They get used hard, have lots of miles on them learning their skills. For his uses, past use time, I would get some basic x-rays on it.

Suggestion here, would be to have your daughter spend some time with a Race Horse trainer, TB or QH, learning how to take care of his legs. There are a variety of bandage styles to give support, remove heat, rubdowns, poulticing, that are very effective in keeping your horse going well for a long time. It is worth the time she spends to learn this information, so her horse is kept in his best condition for competitions.

Another angle, often ignored by Western folks, is conditioning time to harden leg bones, tendons and ligaments, over a long period of time, then maintenance time in keeping those legs fit to compete. Too often I see young people just do a little jogging and then go to compete. That is a great way to HURT a horse, need another one pretty fast. Like any athlete, a barrel horse needs a good warm up, suited to his temperament, getting him truly warm in joints and deep breathing. I always do 20 minutes of timed walking and trotting, before we start a training session with our horses. Going out on the trail, walk the first mile out and the last mile home, to warm up and cool down well.

To be a winner, you have to do things consistently, every time out. You need a plan of action when you get this horse out to use it and compete. He will need some time doing other stuff, going out on a trail ride now and again, keeps his mind better balanced. Kids often have a hard time being consistant in riding, handling, managing their animals, so they have to work at it.

Good luck shopping!
 

bnttyra

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Well I have found that others tend to ignore many things just as much as "Western Folks" so putting ignorance only on western riders is a bit rude.

I would get a PPE on the horse you are interested in. You definitely want something sound for your daughter and while $3k isn't alot to spend on a horse, you can get a good quality PPE done for around $200. Consider it part of the purchase price, which is the cheapest part of owning a horse as I am sure you know.
 

w c

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There are a couple very important issues that a prepurchase exam should cover.

The most important thing of course is if the horse is suitable to the rider. Is the horse too powerful or too green for the rider? Is it really a good choice? A vet can offer an opinion, but that is really the province of a horse trainer or riding instructor who is familiar with how the rider rides. This is an area where many people make very bad mistakes. The biggest mistake people make is to 'overmount' themselves with 'too much horse'. This cuts across all riding sports and activities. Most people need a very quiet, older 'been there done that' horse, especially if they plan to ride only infrequently. Many horses just cannot settle unless they are ridden for a good length of time daily, and not at a walk - if you don't want to really work the horse daily you need to stay away from that type. So my point is, at the very least, take along a really experienced trainer who really knows how to match horse to rider.

Now to the vet and prepurchase.

The first priority (even before looking at the build of the horse, called its 'conformation') is its health. Many, MANY horses are sold with serious lameness, and can't be used, even lightly. Two common causes of chronic lameness - laminitis (often caused by poor management of feed), and arthritis (from old age, or heavy use, poor build, etc). A vet will look for signs of these problems. The hoofs may be slightly deformed or the horse's gaits and stance may be abnormal.

Its basic health is really important. Vets look for indication of lung disease, blindness, hoof disease and many other conditions. Being a mammal a horse is much like a human in that it can get many different illnesses and disorders. They can get asthma, COPD, cancer...the list goes on. The vet looks for any indication of heart disease, digestive disease, etc.

Once the big red flags have been checked for, the vet starts to go into more detail. He will check the legs (by bending, flexing them, by having the horse led by at a walk and trot, and watching him from behind, in front and the side) for signs of joint disease - these don't threaten the life of the animal but can make the horse useless for what you want to do. Some of the more obvious tendon injuries can be found by a skilled practitioner, by gently palpating the horse's legs.

The usual vet exam for prepurchase is a few hundred dollars (VERY cheap compared to keeping an unsuitable horse for a few months...or years....or forever...). If you want to use the horse for sport, or want to compete with him, you need to get xrays of the horse's legs. You can spend a lot of money on a lot of xrays, or stick to the basics - fetlocks, pasterns, hooves, hocks. You may miss something doing just the basics, but that's the risk you take when you try to save money on a prepurchase exam.

One of the most important things in a prepurchase is a blood test. ALL horses should be tested for drugs that might mask pain or serious behavior problems.

Ideally, the blood sample is taken by a vet on the same day you try out the horse, so that any medications the seller gave the horse to affect how he acts while you try him out, are detected. Most drugs leave the system very rapidly and all the seller has to do is weasel it around so the vet exam is in a day or two and no one will be the wiser. Don't let it happen.

Generally, the best approach is to call the seller and if the horse seems suitable, make an appointment and tell them you will be bringing your vet with you on the day you try the horse.

This might cause some real fast backpedaling about how they can't do it that day, and then they'll never return your call again...lol. At least then you know. If they give you a big song and dance about how vets don't know nothin' and xrays are worthless, then you also know - there is something wrong with the horse.

A real common approach is to sedate a young horse before a novice tries it out. The horse will seem 'well trained' and 'quiet'. Of course it's not necessary to use drugs - they can give the horse no water for 36 hours, or just run it half to death before you come out...but a vet (or a good horse trainer) may notice signs that this has been done.

I have had some pretty funny things happen when looking at horses....like I went in the stall where the horse was and there were 3 needle and syringes on the stall floor thrown in a corner, LOL. I called the seller over and said, 'Looks like somebody been having a party in this stall'....lol. Then I left.

I've gone along with others with less experience and you would not believe how many sellers are hiding something - I'd say that's around 99%. I recall going with a real nice middle aged lady who wanted to start riding again, I mean my lord, they bring this horse out and it is dead lame at a walk -at a WALK! And its legs are so swollen the horse looks like it has balloon animal legs. I says, 'Hey, he looks a little tight behind', and the seller just stands there smiling and smiling as if she can't speak....LOL... I said, 'get down off the horse', but I was too late - the damned thing had took off at a dead gallop for the stable and threw that lady in the mud. I go in street clothes so that I look like someone just as novice as the customer...lol....it is awful dang funny when you come down to it, the things sellers do.

The best approach is to settle very firmly on the age, amount of training and type and age of horse...then don't waver from that. ONLY look at horses in that group and don't be distracted. If you as a novice need a 15 year old been there done that gelding for trail riding, look ONLY at 15 year old been there done that geldings that are trail riding already, for example. Stick to your guns.

ANOTHER piece of advice.

NEVER get on the horse first. ALWAYS have the seller or the seller's rider get on the horse first. Watch VERY carefully how the horse is to ride and THEN DECIDE if you are going to get on. NEVER be the first one to get on the horse. People have got killed doing that. Don't be trusting anybody on that. If the horse is so great, then they can ride it first.

If the seller or his rider won't get on the horse, don't get up on It first no matter what. Just leave. Something is not right.

Another piece of advice. Stay local. Don't go driving all over the country to look at horses and DO NOT buy a horse sight unseen or based on an internet ad. Stick to the area you are familiar with. Get familiar with a vet you trust and use him, and NEVER the seller's vet, to examine the horse - any vet information the seller tells you, consider it false until your vet finds it to be completely true. Stick to horses that are in the area, and ideally, horses your friends, trainer or vet are very familiar with.

If the owner offers xrays, ignore them. Take your own and be sure the vet xrays the horse you are buying (yes it's a common trick to simply present a different horse for the vet to examine, than the one you'll be buying...).

Don't be rude to anyone, but remember, when money is changing hands, NO ONE is your friend. No matter how bubbly and friendly and glowing a seller sounds, they are not your buddy and they are not your pal. Again, be nice, but consider nothing to be true unless you can prove it to be true. So for example, if the horse is not registered , let your vet examine its teeth and estimate its age, and take anything anyone tells you about the horse as fascinating information that may or may not be true.

Today, the quality of portable xray machines means that most people can get xrays of extremely high quality for very little money. Xrays today are incredible - digital means the image can be magnified and examined in more detail than ever before. Today they are a better part of prepurchase than they ever have been.

It's a good idea to be very frank with yourself about how often you'll use the horse and how hard you'll use him, and have a really sensible practical plan for choosing one...as well as an extremely clear eyed view of your level of experience and if you really have the money, time and training owning a horse requires.

Always bring someone along who is far more experienced than you are (no matter how much you know there is always someone who knows more), and consider that there are an awful lot of 'sharp dealings' around people trying to get rid of bad horses....and an awful lotta buyers get 'took'. NEVER buy a horse sight unseen, and ALWAYS get a blood test.
 
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