Animals to acreage question

farmerjan

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Since I was tagged here, I will give you some VERY ROUND ESTIMATES. Here in Va we figure 1 cow per 1-3 acres for grazing. That is not including the hay to keep her through the winter. Then it also depends on the way the land sits, the tilth of the soil, the composition of it too. I am not familiar with Tn soil.
How about contacting a county extension service in the area you are looking at? They can give you an idea....

That said, go for more rather than less land. You can always let it lie fallow and be a buffer between you and the neighbors.

You can figure 5 sheep to the area that one cow needs. The goats are more browsers, but will also utilize pasture at somewhat near the same as the sheep. Remember that once they are done with the "cleanup" browsing, they will be eating hay/grass too.

If you find land that is overgrown, the thing to do is to start with some GOOD fencing, then sorta let the goats do some of the initial cleaning out since that is what they like. Yes they still need to be fed but they will be happy in the cleanup stage. They utilize goats in some areas to keep the access areas under powerlines open. Milk goats will need some "better feed" in order to produce, but they too are designed to browse rather than just graze.

Pigs are going to be a "seasonal thing" unless you intend to keep a small breeding herd to produce your own and some to sell. They are the "plowers" and will tear up a pasture if left alone, but can be ringed to allow them to graze more and root less. I liked to have a "designated section" for them, then allow them access to areas that I wanted to be rooted up, say the garden, for the winter. A half acre or so would be sufficient for them, but more area is a happy pig. If you are planning to grow a few gardens, then allow one to be idle each year, pen them in it and then the next year put them in a different one. They are escape artists, so plan the fencing....electric is good but they will dig around and push dirt up on it and ground it out. A simple fence is actually several gates that they will not be able to easily push up since they are "tied" together and can be moved around.

The chickens can be done one of a couple ways. Permanent coop with free range during the day, permanent coop with a designated "run", and moveable "chicken tractors" that will be moved daily or so. All have their benefits. I used to have permanent coops, permanent runs and let them out some. The ground will not support vegetation after a short period of time. Now I have moveable coops, pens and they do fine. I can move them to the garden for the winter, and they get to clean it up for me.

You said that the momma cow wouldn't be there too long after the calf is weaned since she will be going in the freezer. You will be much further ahead to just raise a couple of steers or heifers for beef and not even go the cow route unless you are wanting to milk a cow then the calf would be the designated freezer beef. A cow is preg for 9 months then you are talking a good 6-10 months before weaning a calf off a beef cow. There is no good reason to wean a beef calf off sooner. It gets alot of it's nutrition and hence growing from the milk of the cow then from added grazing and hay. Most dairy calves are fed milk or milk replacer and are weaned in the 8-12 week time; they then have to have ALOT of more expensive feed in order to meet the protein needs of their growing bodies. You are not gaining anything by weaning a beef calf that young when the cow can supply the needed nutrition.
You will be shooting yourself in the foot to kill off the cow and then spend all that money to raise the calf. Buy a couple of feeder calves at 5-700 lbs, keep for 6-12 months, sell one and kill the other. Or have a cow for milk, breed her to a beef bull, get a crossbred calf, let her raise it and you milk her, too; get her bred back when the calf is about 3-4 months old, and then wean it off at 6-10 months all according to your milk needs. She will have a 2-3 month dry period, then produce another calf for you to raise up for the next beef. You are looking at feeding a beef animal for about 18-26 months before it is ready to kill.

One word to the wise, do not start with a bred heifer. If you are going to go the cow/calf route, get a cow that has had a couple of calves. They know what they are doing, and unless you have some experience, a heifer can be a train wreck. They can do fine too, but it is a much bigger gamble.

If you are just wanting beef for the freezer, a couple of feeders will be alot better deal, the initial outlay will be about what a bred cow will cost. Don't raise one alone if you can help it. They are herd animals and prefer company of their own kind.

Just off the top of my head I would say 15-20 acres if you can manage the money.
 

Lereg

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Since I was tagged here, I will give you some VERY ROUND ESTIMATES. Here in Va we figure 1 cow per 1-3 acres for grazing. That is not including the hay to keep her through the winter. Then it also depends on the way the land sits, the tilth of the soil, the composition of it too. I am not familiar with Tn soil.
How about contacting a county extension service in the area you are looking at? They can give you an idea....

That said, go for more rather than less land. You can always let it lie fallow and be a buffer between you and the neighbors.

You can figure 5 sheep to the area that one cow needs. The goats are more browsers, but will also utilize pasture at somewhat near the same as the sheep. Remember that once they are done with the "cleanup" browsing, they will be eating hay/grass too.

If you find land that is overgrown, the thing to do is to start with some GOOD fencing, then sorta let the goats do some of the initial cleaning out since that is what they like. Yes they still need to be fed but they will be happy in the cleanup stage. They utilize goats in some areas to keep the access areas under powerlines open. Milk goats will need some "better feed" in order to produce, but they too are designed to browse rather than just graze.

Pigs are going to be a "seasonal thing" unless you intend to keep a small breeding herd to produce your own and some to sell. They are the "plowers" and will tear up a pasture if left alone, but can be ringed to allow them to graze more and root less. I liked to have a "designated section" for them, then allow them access to areas that I wanted to be rooted up, say the garden, for the winter. A half acre or so would be sufficient for them, but more area is a happy pig. If you are planning to grow a few gardens, then allow one to be idle each year, pen them in it and then the next year put them in a different one. They are escape artists, so plan the fencing....electric is good but they will dig around and push dirt up on it and ground it out. A simple fence is actually several gates that they will not be able to easily push up since they are "tied" together and can be moved around.

The chickens can be done one of a couple ways. Permanent coop with free range during the day, permanent coop with a designated "run", and moveable "chicken tractors" that will be moved daily or so. All have their benefits. I used to have permanent coops, permanent runs and let them out some. The ground will not support vegetation after a short period of time. Now I have moveable coops, pens and they do fine. I can move them to the garden for the winter, and they get to clean it up for me.

You said that the momma cow wouldn't be there too long after the calf is weaned since she will be going in the freezer. You will be much further ahead to just raise a couple of steers or heifers for beef and not even go the cow route unless you are wanting to milk a cow then the calf would be the designated freezer beef. A cow is preg for 9 months then you are talking a good 6-10 months before weaning a calf off a beef cow. There is no good reason to wean a beef calf off sooner. It gets alot of it's nutrition and hence growing from the milk of the cow then from added grazing and hay. Most dairy calves are fed milk or milk replacer and are weaned in the 8-12 week time; they then have to have ALOT of more expensive feed in order to meet the protein needs of their growing bodies. You are not gaining anything by weaning a beef calf that young when the cow can supply the needed nutrition.
You will be shooting yourself in the foot to kill off the cow and then spend all that money to raise the calf. Buy a couple of feeder calves at 5-700 lbs, keep for 6-12 months, sell one and kill the other. Or have a cow for milk, breed her to a beef bull, get a crossbred calf, let her raise it and you milk her, too; get her bred back when the calf is about 3-4 months old, and then wean it off at 6-10 months all according to your milk needs. She will have a 2-3 month dry period, then produce another calf for you to raise up for the next beef. You are looking at feeding a beef animal for about 18-26 months before it is ready to kill.

One word to the wise, do not start with a bred heifer. If you are going to go the cow/calf route, get a cow that has had a couple of calves. They know what they are doing, and unless you have some experience, a heifer can be a train wreck. They can do fine too, but it is a much bigger gamble.

If you are just wanting beef for the freezer, a couple of feeders will be alot better deal, the initial outlay will be about what a bred cow will cost. Don't raise one alone if you can help it. They are herd animals and prefer company of their own kind.

Just off the top of my head I would say 15-20 acres if you can manage the money.
Wow. I didn't realize that calves took so long to wean. I like your idea of the two feeder cows instead. Sounds more feasible that way.
The chickens will be in a permanent house, and I plan on feeding them fermented food to try and help with the cost.

Thanks for your advice!!
 

greybeard

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1.--What Jan said. In the south, on good pasture during spring thru mid autumn, 1 to 2.5 ac per AU. (animal unit)--in Texas, it generally refers to cow with calf by her side--"a pair". You should be able to access Tenn data for what the AUM is in the area you pick to farmstead. AUM=Animal Unit per Month. That, means how much pasture you will need to support 1 animal over a 30 day period, because it is based on the number of pounds of forage each acre can/will produce, and that is unit of measure is roughly 26-28 lbs of forage per day.

There is also a unit of measure called AUE. Animal Unit Equivilent. Each species has it's own AUE.
AUE.jpg

The following is a pretty good read for new farmers. It is from Texas A&M and you may be able to find a similar read from the Tenn Univ that is tasked with support of that state's Extension Service.
http://twri.tamu.edu/reports/2000/b6091.pdf




2.--You mentioned you are thinking about 'bred heifers'. Again, FarmerJan is spot on. Inasmuch as you have stated that you are just getting into this, I would not recommend heifers--unless you just like being up at all hours of the day and night checking on them, know what to do, when to assist, how long to wait, and can catch them to be able to assist. Even for experienced ranchers, heifers at calving time are the single biggest headache and heartache we see each year. Get a little bit older bred cow that has already proven herself to be able to calve alone, accept the calf, and with a proven udder to be able to and raise the calf.

Or, buy a steer calf and raise it as you want to--get your feet wet on this one before moving up to heifer calving.
OR, a heifer with bull/steer calf by her side (let the previous owner go thru the headache and drama heifers bring to the table) .

3. A note about property taxes. Know ahead of time, how much acreage your county and state require in order to qualify for an agriculture tax exemption. In my county, it's 20 acres minimum. Many places, it's 10--some places even less. That ag exemption can save you a LOT of money at county property tax time, if you plan ahead, and now, is the time to start doing that planning. One of the requirements is to be able to exhibit a working knowledge of the area of ag you are going to use the land for. You can't just walk in and say "I want to raise a few pigs/sheep/calves/chickens/goats and I'm gonna learn from BYH and the internet how to do it". That, will not fly with the govt.

4. There are a huge number of programs available to help people get into agriculture, whether hobbyists or for-profit endeavors. Some are low interest loans, some are grants (free money!!) but most don't know about them and spend their own $$ instead. In 2011, I missed out on about $2000 of free money for drought assistance to buy hay, simply because I was ignorant the program existed. $2000...:hit

There are lots and lots of resources available as well, free most of the time from NCRS and the state extension service.In addition, many of the co-ops have monthly or periodic seminars on different aspects of agriculture--so do different animal husbandry associations. Every year here, I attend the annual South East Texas Beef Cattle Symposium, and I learn something new every year for $20 and get a good meal to boot.
Even tho you may not even have a county picked out yet, sign up now in your county at the extension service for their newsletter. Attend their classes and get what is known as CEUs--continuing education units--having these can help get an ag tax exemption--it helps show you have a working knowledge of agriculture. You can learn about what they have to offer thru their newsletters.
You (most places) don't actually have to make a profit to get/keep the ag exemption--just show that it is feasible on your place to produce an ag product. I've never had the county appraisal district come out and ask to look at my books. If they did, my sisters would both be in deep do-do because neither has ever made a dime over the 10 years they've had their properties on ag--nor have they tried to.
 
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farmerjan

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@greybeard has some really good info; the AUE is a good guide. It is based on the 1000 lb cow. But you are talking good vegetative state of growth for optimal grazing. So the conditions of the pasture will vary greatly with the weather.

Like he said, and I mentioned, get with the extension service, they have free brochures to read, and start to get some feel for what is practical there. They often list any upcoming meetings on their websites, and like he said, for 20 bucks you can go listen to some people more experienced and get a good meal and talk to others in the area that might be doing just what you want to do.

Learn the terminology also. Feeders are not cows, they are usually calves, or heifers, or steers, or cattle. Cows refer to a mature animal. Pigs are gilts for females, barrows for castrated males, boars or sows. Same with goats, sheep, chickens, everything, they have their own terminology. Go to tractor supply or somewhere and get a couple of "beginner" books most are through "Storey Press" for beginning farmers to learn some of the basics.

Remember, any, all animals that you get require YOU to take care of them. They are a joy, a pain, and a responsibility. Rain, snow, crappy weather, 100* heat, you having the flu, all that , they will be depending on you.
 

NH homesteader

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Thanks @greybeard for mentioning the extension service! The University of Tennessee has a ton of info, just found the website for the county I'm interested in moving to and I can't wait to do some reading! Way more informative than the extension office up here. Well, they may be helpful here but they don't have a good website so I don't know if they are.

And yes... Ask me about taking care of animals in three feet of snow... Lol. It isn't always fun, but it's worth it.
 

greybeard

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Thanks @greybeard for mentioning the extension service! The University of Tennessee has a ton of info, just found the website for the county I'm interested in moving to and I can't wait to do some reading! Way more informative than the extension office up here. Well, they may be helpful here but they don't have a good website so I don't know if they are.
That has been my experience as well, that not all extension service offices are created equal, nor are all extension service agents. We had one for about 4 years, whose modus operandi was simply to tell ya to see his receptionist for a brochure, no matter what the problem was. He was short on getting involved with any of the cattle producer problems here, but long on calling each one of us to make sure we'd be bringing our checkbooks to the annual youth fair auction, and wasn't bashful at all about asking if he could bring the 4h kids out to use a handling facility and our herd to do a beef cattle judging. I just told him to find find a TAMU brochure for learning that.
The new guy is much better.
 

Bossroo

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You (most places) don't actually have to make a profit to get/keep the ag exemption--just show that it is feasible on your place to produce an ag product. I've never had the county appraisal district come out and ask to look at my books. If they did, my sisters would both be in deep do-do because neither has ever made a dime over the 10 years they've had their properties on ag--nor have they tried to.[/QUOTE]Another thing to consider is the IRS. You have to prove to the IRS that you intend to make a profit then show a profit in a set period of years if you want to take a deduction on your farming endeavers. The US Senate and the House of Representatives sets the rules , the IRS applies them to see if you are a business for profit and qualify to deduct your operating expenses or are a hobby farm and do not qualify. I would recomend that you find a CPA that specializes in farming to help you put more money in your pocket.
 

Lereg

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1.--What Jan said. In the south, on good pasture during spring thru mid autumn, 1 to 2.5 ac per AU. (animal unit)--in Texas, it generally refers to cow with calf by her side--"a pair". You should be able to access Tenn data for what the AUM is in the area you pick to farmstead. AUM=Animal Unit per Month. That, means how much pasture you will need to support 1 animal over a 30 day period, because it is based on the number of pounds of forage each acre can/will produce, and that is unit of measure is roughly 26-28 lbs of forage per day.

There is also a unit of measure called AUE. Animal Unit Equivilent. Each species has it's own AUE.
View attachment 28037
The following is a pretty good read for new farmers. It is from Texas A&M and you may be able to find a similar read from the Tenn Univ that is tasked with support of that state's Extension Service.
http://twri.tamu.edu/reports/2000/b6091.pdf




2.--You mentioned you are thinking about 'bred heifers'. Again, FarmerJan is spot on. Inasmuch as you have stated that you are just getting into this, I would not recommend heifers--unless you just like being up at all hours of the day and night checking on them, know what to do, when to assist, how long to wait, and can catch them to be able to assist. Even for experienced ranchers, heifers at calving time are the single biggest headache and heartache we see each year. Get a little bit older bred cow that has already proven herself to be able to calve alone, accept the calf, and with a proven udder to be able to and raise the calf.

Or, buy a steer calf and raise it as you want to--get your feet wet on this one before moving up to heifer calving.
OR, a heifer with bull/steer calf by her side (let the previous owner go thru the headache and drama heifers bring to the table) .

3. A note about property taxes. Know ahead of time, how much acreage your county and state require in order to qualify for an agriculture tax exemption. In my county, it's 20 acres minimum. Many places, it's 10--some places even less. That ag exemption can save you a LOT of money at county property tax time, if you plan ahead, and now, is the time to start doing that planning. One of the requirements is to be able to exhibit a working knowledge of the area of ag you are going to use the land for. You can't just walk in and say "I want to raise a few pigs/sheep/calves/chickens/goats and I'm gonna learn from BYH and the internet how to do it". That, will not fly with the govt.

4. There are a huge number of programs available to help people get into agriculture, whether hobbyists or for-profit endeavors. Some are low interest loans, some are grants (free money!!) but most don't know about them and spend their own $$ instead. In 2011, I missed out on about $2000 of free money for drought assistance to buy hay, simply because I was ignorant the program existed. $2000...:hit

There are lots and lots of resources available as well, free most of the time from NCRS and the state extension service.In addition, many of the co-ops have monthly or periodic seminars on different aspects of agriculture--so do different animal husbandry associations. Every year here, I attend the annual South East Texas Beef Cattle Symposium, and I learn something new every year for $20 and get a good meal to boot.
Even tho you may not even have a county picked out yet, sign up now in your county at the extension service for their newsletter. Attend their classes and get what is known as CEUs--continuing education units--having these can help get an ag tax exemption--it helps show you have a working knowledge of agriculture. You can learn about what they have to offer thru their newsletters.
You (most places) don't actually have to make a profit to get/keep the ag exemption--just show that it is feasible on your place to produce an ag product. I've never had the county appraisal district come out and ask to look at my books. If they did, my sisters would both be in deep do-do because neither has ever made a dime over the 10 years they've had their properties on ag--nor have they tried to.
Thanks Greybeard!! I'm thinking of just feeders "cows", now. I will contact my extensions and see whats available around this area. It's great to know about the exemptions, but the wife will be doing all the financial things for us, but I will be sure to tell her!! Just so you know, this wont be happening as soon as we get a farm. There will be simple steps to get to where we need to be.

Thank you for you informative post, and I will look into it!!
 
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