Greetings from San Antonio!

Regarding butchering/processing animals... check with your local butcher, not the guy in the meat department of your local grocery store. We found a real good guy a couple towns from us that does it all from unloading the animal, slaughtering, hanging, processing into cuts you request, vacuum packing and deep fast freezing. We've been using him for close to 10 years. He does cows, pigs, goats and deer in season. Due to regulations he can't do any other animal when he does deer so we just arrange around deer season.

We could do our own goat or pig, but we can'd do the deep, fast freezing he can.

Good fresh tasting goat milk requires everything to be clean: hands, udders, milking area, milking apparatus. Doesn't need to be "sterile" but it does need to be clean. Once you finish milking take your bounty and get it strained and put in jars and in the refrigerator before you do anything else. I find that once in the refrigerator the milk is yummy for close to a week. It may be great longer than that but it never lasts that long.

Good milk isn't daunting. You just need to pay attention to what you are doing and once you get your routine down it is quite pleasant.

Some breeds do process better tasting milk. Nubians, LaManchas, Alpines and Nigerian Dwarfs are good producers of fine tasting milk.

As you chat with breeders you should mention your apprehension regarding the milk taste and a good breeder would offer a sample. It is in the interest of the breeder to ensure you are clear on what you are buying. I will give a glass of my does milk so a prospective buyer if asked.

CntryBoy777 said:

Most around these parts have tractors with front-end loaders (FEL) to deal with that. A minivan is built on a car chasis and there is a reason ya never see one with a livestock trailer hitched to it with large animals in them....weight and movement. I've seen plenty of light weight vehicles with trailers in accidents even with campers when they lose traction and spin around and around til they hit something. I use to drive a big truck for a living. Truly I am not against your dreams and desires, but there are some things that must be considered for your safety and that of your family. Since ya are just starting out, it is best to start a bit small and then move to large. Especially, when the large animal will cost more, more to feed, and a much bigger loss if something were to happen to it. I certainly want you to succeed and have a great experience in getting there.

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Thanks for the thoughts! Towing with the minivan is something that I've given A LOT of thought to... As you know, it's not exactly the ideal tow vehicle, but the Odyssey does suit our purposes right now. That said, I'm very careful about staying well below the 3500 lb tow limit, I watch my tongue weight, use sway control and electronic braking, and am careful to balance loads. I drive under 65 at all time while towing, and I have to admit that I breathe a little sigh of relief the first time I get behind the wheel of the unhitched Ody after a trip pulling something. But I've put a couple thousand towing miles, at least, on the minivan, and I've never felt like it was even a marginal ride-- it performs well for what I've used it for. I absolutely realize that towing is inherently more dangerous than everyday driving, and I do take that responsibility seriously.

I honestly don't know what the dry weight of a small livestock trailer is. I haven't gotten to the point of looking into it yet. But I suspect that I could stay well within my tow limits using a small trailer and just about any animal we'd have on our homestead. I'm guessing the beasts would top out around 800 lb-- that would be either a large donkey or a Dexter cow. The more important consideration for me would be the animal moving around and throwing off the balance... How do folks hauling animals get around that? Also, we wouldn't be moving animals around just for fun. We would do it only on a limited basis for short hauls. So I think I would be comfortable towing animals with the van, although if I am missing something, then I would certainly like some advice on that.

Regarding the "car chassis"-- I think you're referring to body-on-frame vs unibody vehicles? I know Honda builds the Odyssey on a "light global truck platform" or something like that, and it is a unibody. I know the BOF is better for towing, but I'm honestly not sure whether that's an important consideration for light duty towing? Again, I'm not pushing the published limits on my towing capability... I can totally see BOF being very important if you're pulling 8,000 lb or if you're pulling a trailer weighing considerably more than your tow vehicle or something, but for a 3000 lb load being pulled by a minivan with a curb weight of 4000+? I honestly don't know... I would appreciate your thoughts, though!

Latestarter said:

Hello again! Sounds like you're already well on your way One recommendation that could save you thousands of $$... Check with the county appraisal office where you're buying and find out for SURE how many acres are required to claim the Ag exemption. They will normally require that you have a minimum of 1 acre with the house and whatever their minimum is after that... some counties are as low as 5 acres, some are much higher. Also, make SURE you know the time requirement and try to buy land that already has the Ag exemption. Where I am, if I had bought land that wasn't already Ag exempt, I'd have had to work it Ag for 5 years before I could get the exemption. The county should also be able to give you a list of what you have to do per acre to have the Ag exemption. Here I can have bee hives, plant pecan trees, have an orchard, run cattle, have goats or sheep, chickens and other poultry don't count. It will say how many per acre are expected. I'm on 19 acres, 1 for the house, 1/2 of the remainder in forestry the other 1/2 in livestock.

Look forward to follwing along with you on your journey. Hope you'll stay with us and share it!

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ARRGHH! The ag exemption! That's giving me tons of headaches. Actually, I was going to try posting a thread specifically about that, but since you brought it up, I'll start here: We've been looking in a couple different counties. The two places we've made offers were in Guadalupe Co and Bexar Co, respectively. Guadalupe Co was 13 acres and currently approved for hay or cattle. Bexar was 10 acres and approved for cattle. Based on what I was told by the tax offices in each county, our homesteading goals are not compatible with maintaining the exemptions.

In Guadalupe Co, there is no minimum acreage for the exemption, BUT you need to run (IIRC) 5 Animal Units regardless of acreage. So if you have 1 acre that you'd like an exemption on, you need 5 AU. If you have 100 acres, you still need only 5 AU. AND it needs to be a straight run of the same type of animal, say 5 head of cattle. You cannot run 2 head of cattle + some number of goats and get the exemption. The tax assessor I spoke with specifically said the ag exemption stuff excludes hobby farms. In the case of the property we were looking at, I felt 5 AU just to get the exemption + any extra animals we wanted for our own would be too much pressure on the land. Fortunately, in Guadalupe Co there is no roll back tax if you drop the ag exemption but do "token ag" on the land for at least 5 years.

In Bexar Co, there is a minimum of 15 acres and 4 AU for cattle. The property we were looking at was 10 acres, so it didn't meet the minimum. However, the owners were running it in conjunction with the neighboring property, so they just kept the fence gates open, the cattle were free to come and go between the properties, and so they were ag exempt for cattle. If we were to buy that land, we'd also need to keep the gates open. Otherwise, we'd have to drop the ag. In Bexar Co, the tax folks told me, there is a roll back penalty if you drop the ag, even if you continue to run a hobby farm on it. In the case of that property, the roll back was $15K+, which was just too much. Plus the yearly taxes after that were very high.

So, we're just running into trouble with the ag exemptions; it doesn't seem like we can run a small, diversified family farm and still qualify for the ag exemption!?!? Fellow Texans, are you all getting the exemption for your homesteads? How are you able to do that? I'm really upset about this-- I don't see why putting 5 cows on 100 acres is "ag" but running a self-sufficient little homestead on 10 acres is not "ag!" I would absolutely love any tips you all can offer on navigating this!

animalmom said:

Good fresh tasting goat milk requires everything to be clean: hands, udders, milking area, milking apparatus. Doesn't need to be "sterile" but it does need to be clean. Once you finish milking take your bounty and get it strained and put in jars and in the refrigerator before you do anything else. I find that once in the refrigerator the milk is yummy for close to a week. It may be great longer than that but it never lasts that long.

Good milk isn't daunting. You just need to pay attention to what you are doing and once you get your routine down it is quite pleasant.

Some breeds do process better tasting milk. Nubians, LaManchas, Alpines and Nigerian Dwarfs are good producers of fine tasting milk.

As you chat with breeders you should mention your apprehension regarding the milk taste and a good breeder would offer a sample. It is in the interest of the breeder to ensure you are clear on what you are buying. I will give a glass of my does milk so a prospective buyer if asked.

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These are great tips! Thanks.

Those of you with diary goats, how would you say the taste of fresh goat's milk compares with cows' milk? What about the meat? Is it similar to lamb?

I wish you much luck on your journey.
We spent a lot of time to find our little farm it took us months, and we were able to find a place here in Florida that doesn't have any restrictions, however at only 3 acres we are limited. We have a few sheep, turkeys, and chickens. We also grow a small garden. It is everything I dreamed it would be living here. Lots of work though, there is always something to do and never enough time to do it all.
As far as milk goes we don't drink much of it, but I am tempted when I go to wean the lambs to try some sheep milk. We are the only mammals that actually continue to drink milk after we are weaned, thought about giving up dairy but I love cheese and ice cream too much. Found some recipes for making cheese with sheeps milk might try it. We chose sheep over goats because we don't care for eating goat, and they are a little easier on the pasture and property.

There are several factors to consider with pulling weight. The power to pull, transmission to pull, suspension to pull and terrain of weight being pulled over. If ya feel confident about it...do it, but just be ready to replace it...or parts pretty quickly....and carrying a logging chain and 4ton come-a-long under the rear seat...it just might come in Handy.

Gorman Farm said:

As far as milk goes we don't drink much of it, but I am tempted when I go to wean the lambs to try some sheep milk. We are the only mammals that actually continue to drink milk after we are weaned, thought about giving up dairy but I love cheese and ice cream too much. Found some recipes for making cheese with sheeps milk might try it. We chose sheep over goats because we don't care for eating goat, and they are a little easier on the pasture and property.

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Thanks. We're oddballs here-- My husband is lactose intolerant, but he's actually the biggest consumer of milk in the family! LOL He ferments cows' milk from the store and makes milk kefir. Tasty stuff and good stuff. He goes through about a half gallon a day. The kids drink a little milk, I use a bit in my coffee, and we all eat hard cheese. Sheep are an interesting choice. I've punted back and forth in my mind regarding sheep or goats.... I do like sheep milk cheese and lamb meat, but I've never had the actual milk. Anyone have thoughts on sheep milk vs goats'? I also needle felt and like the idea of using wool from my own animals... Lots of choices, it seems.

I've never eaten goat, or lamb actually. My goat's milk tastes simular to cows milk. Has your husband tried goat milk? I've read that some people who are lactase intolerant can drink goat milk with no problems. I am a huge dairy fan, but never tried sheep milk so I can't help with a comparison.

Does fermenting make the lactose digestable? I have been wanting to try to make kefir, but haven't looked too deeply into how to do it yet. Fermenting milk kind of scares me! Lol

CntryBoy777 said:

There are several factors to consider with pulling weight. The power to pull, transmission to pull, suspension to pull and terrain of weight being pulled over. If ya feel confident about it...do it, but just be ready to replace it...or parts pretty quickly....and carrying a logging chain and 4ton come-a-long under the rear seat...it just might come in Handy.

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Well, the van has the power for what I've used it for. My gas mileage goes down the drain when towing, but I keep an eye on the RPMs and temp, and the engine doesn't seem to be working too hard. I fully expect to wear out the suspension sooner, but that doesn't seem too bad, either. A little squishy, but I've never bottomed out. LOL And of course, I could always boost the suspension a bit. Terrain isn't an issue; it's mostly highway driving that I do. Transmission, I suppose, is the wildcard, and it's the component I'm most worried about, but with a cooler and regular maintenance, I hope I'm OK. At any rate, I'm not exceeding anything recommended by Honda for my vehicle, so while I do expect to suffer a bit more wear and tear, I don't think I'm courting disaster by using it as a light tow vehicle... Time will tell!

Get a few of each and make your choice that way.

Just kidding of course.

I have had dairy sheep milk ans found it really tasty but I like goat milk just as much so I'm no help there.

NH homesteader said:

I've never eaten goat, or lamb actually. My goat's milk tastes simular to cows milk. Has your husband tried goat milk? I've read that some people who are lactase intolerant can drink goat milk with no problems. I am a huge dairy fan, but never tried sheep milk so I can't help with a comparison.

Does fermenting make the lactose digestable? I have been wanting to try to make kefir, but haven't looked too deeply into how to do it yet. Fermenting milk kind of scares me! Lol

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He hasn't tried goats' milk. He's happy just with his kefir and yogurt, so we don't really worry about it. When we need milk for a recipe or whatever, I just make some almond milk or turn to coconut milk. I've heard the same thing about goat milk, though.

As far as kefir, yes, fermenting makes it more digestible! The microbes involved in the fermentation take the milk sugars and convert them into acids, which are what give yogurt and kefir their tart taste. The longer you ferment, the less sugar remains behind, and the more tart the end product. And kefir is not hard! We bought our starters from Cultures from Health. You pretty much mix the starter with the milk and let it sit on the countertop for a day or so. Easy peasy. And it's hard to mess up because the "good bugs" in the fermenting kefir should outcompete any "bad bugs" that might contaminate the milk/kefir. The only issue we ever ran into was some cross contamination when we were fermenting a couple different things, but keeping the ferments a few few away from one another helps with that. And Cultures for Health has great customer service. They helped us troubleshoot and sent us new starter for free... If you're interesting in getting into ferments, I'd say give it a shot!

Cool thanks! I'll check them out!