Puppies and snakes and coyotes-- Oh, my!

Copperheads are terrible

I know 3 folks that were bitten, cat was but on 3-4 different occasions, friend's dog was bitten...I'm sure I'm forgetting some but we've killed a LOT.

I think @babsbag has done snake aversion training with her dogs, might be worth looking into.
This guy was just ended a few days ago. HATE HATE them!

I did rattlesnake aversion training with all of my dogs and have seen proof of it working with two of them. They train them to avert by sound, sight, and smell. They tell me that a dog will not learn to leave them alone as the bite does not hurt at the time of the bite, only later. When my first dog was bitten a few years ago we administered benedryl and went to the vet ASAP. The vet said that the benedryl does no good whatsoever as it is not an allergic response that causes the swelling. But I have read many many things online where people were told to give Benedryl. I figure it can't hurt, and will make them tired which is good. Either way they need a vet for the antibiotics if nothing else as snake bites are very dirty.

Most rattlesnake venom contain hemotoxic elements which damage tissue and affect the circulatory system by destroying blood cells, skin tissues and causing internal hemorrhaging. Rattlesnake venom can also contains neurotoxic components which immobilize the nervous system, affecting the victim's breathing, sometimes stopping it, but that is usually in baby snakes and the Mojave rattler.

Copperheads are in the same family as a rattler but not as toxic.

Latestarter said:

So I'm guessing this all means that you have closed on the place successfully and are living there now... Congratulations! Aside from the snakes and coyotes, I hope it's everything you were hoping it would be... How'd it eventually work out between them and the older dog(s) that they didn't get along with? As I recall, one of the pups got attacked...

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Yes, we closed on the farm the second week in July! It's been an adventure so far, and we're still working on getting settled, but I love it. Unfortunately, our 8 year old, who has always been a sensitive kid, has been having a hard time adjusting to the new place/routine. We're working through that, but it's difficult for him and hard for us to watch. I think we're making progress, though. However, our 5 year old LOVES it here, and it's a lot of fun watching her with the animals. Anyway, I've been meaning to start a journal on here but haven't found the time. I'll get one up eventually!

Our older house dog, Sam, is as awful as ever. :/ She can't be around ANY of the other animals without trying to attack them. As I've already written about here, she has attacked the kids' cats and also the puppies. Now on the farm, we lost a chicken to her (DS accidentally let her out). I've also had to chase after her in the pastures as she ran after the goats AND the steers. I kinda wish one of the cattle would've given her a good kick. She's either in the house or tied in the front yard (where she barks obsessively at any of the stock she can see).

I've heard so much about the rattlesnake vaccine from both sides of the fence. I've asked 3 different vets about it. First guy says it's cheap insurance and sometimes negates the need for antivenom. He recommends it. Second vet says her patients who've had the vaccine still needed treatment but generally had better outcomes than non-vaccinated dogs. She says it's worth considering. Third vet says it's a total ripoff and shouldn't be on the market.

babsbag said:

I did rattlesnake aversion training with all of my dogs and have seen proof of it working with two of them. They train them to avert by sound, sight, and smell. They tell me that a dog will not learn to leave them alone as the bite does not hurt at the time of the bite, only later. When my first dog was bitten a few years ago we administered benedryl and went to the vet ASAP. The vet said that the benedryl does no good whatsoever as it is not an allergic response that causes the swelling. But I have read many many things online where people were told to give Benedryl. I figure it can't hurt, and will make them tired which is good. Either way they need a vet for the antibiotics if nothing else as snake bites are very dirty.

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I have considered the aversion training and might give it a try. And interesting about your vet's advice regarding Benedryl. Benedryl is the only standard treatment our vet recommends for copperhead bites. I took Dot to the vet (not our normal one; an e-vet) after her copperhead bite, and the vet actually said that the antibiotics are unnecessary most of the time. We declined them.

So at this point, I'm not so worried about copperhead bites. BUT we might have rattlesnakes here, too. Suppose a dog comes running up and has gotten bitten but I didn't see the snake. Then what? Do we assume it's a copperhead or take the extra conservative route and assume it's a rattler? Is there any way to make an educated guess which kind of snake it was based on the dog's symptoms or anything like that?

Since rattlesnakes and copperheads are both pit vipers I don't know how you would know the difference, we only have rattlesnakes to worry about so it is obvious. My vet won't do the vaccine, she says that it has not been tested on dogs and that any testing that was done was only with one specific kind of rattlesnake, and not the kind we have here. I believe that the Benedryl is more to keep them calm than it is to help with the swelling; it was an emergency clinic that I went to, not my normal vet, otherwise I would ask again as now I am curious. I believe that my vet gives Dexamethasone and antibiotics. The way the venom works by interfering with circulation is what causes the swelling, at least that is my understanding. But again, Benedryl is harmless so what would it hurt.

LMK17 said:

I've also had to chase after her in the pastures as she ran after the goats AND the steers.

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Sounds like a dog that could benefit from a remote controlled shock collar. Clearly ALL your other animals would benefit. I think they have a warning setting as well like invisible fence collars. It will take work and time on your part of course.

Bruce said:

Sounds like a dog that could benefit from a remote controlled shock collar. Clearly ALL your other animals would benefit. I think they have a warning setting as well like invisible fence collars. It will take work and time on your part of course.

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Oh, it's not that I'm afraid of putting in effort. Unfortunately, I think Sam's just a lost cause, though. And apparently I'm not the only one: Two trainers have refused to work with her, saying they can't reform her. Long story, but she's a 9 year old chow-chow mix who has had aggression and predation issues since before I got her at age 5 months. The shelter nearly deemed her un-adoptable. :/ And the darn thing is so wooly that the hotwire can't zap her, so she runs right through it given the chance to get to the livestock. Fortunately, the only times she's escaped the house were in the first week or so that we lived here. I think we figured out a system now to keep her away from the doors. We've got strategically placed baby gates + she wears a muzzle as an extra safety net. I hate to do it, but the alternative is to rehome or euthanize her.

I just keep telling myself that at least she's unlikely to live another 9 years... That said, she's always been good with the kids and DH and me. She also barks at snakes and hawks, so she's got that going for her. LOL

I hope you can keep her from becoming a danger to your other animals. What about a kennel with wire bottom and top so she can at least go outdoors when the weather is nice for her? I know you don't want to give up on her, but it will be hard to keep her away from the other animals. Good luck with her.

Shave her and the hot wire will "talk" to her

The purpose of the shock collar is so you can zap her every time she looks like she is thinking about doing something seriously against the house rules.