Misfitmorgan's Journal - That Summer Dust

misfitmorgan · Sep 20, 2017

Bruce said:
You might want to reconsider the tankless water heater. We have one, got it when half the house was rebuilt 4 years ago. It is useful only when taking a shower. For small uses it is really inefficient and water using appliances (dishwasher, clothes washer) use very little these days. I doubt the washer ever gets the proper temp water, at least at the beginning, since it puts in a little water, spins, puts in some water, spins, etc. The on demand isn't on long enough to heat that water at all.

Your well water is likely the same temp as ours which means maybe 45°. The basement even in the summer is only about 60°. I've watched the temp guage on the temperature control valve. It takes several minutes to get up to even 100°, longer to get to 120°. Thus you are sending a lot of tepid water through the pipes before you finally get hot water. With water starting at 120° you aren't wasting nearly as much.

Then there are the "rapid cycle" things. It goes on after it senses 1/2 gal/min for 3 seconds. Unless you leave the water running, you build up a lot of "cold pockets" in the pipe. The place where I first ran into that was shaving then showering. I don't use an electric, all the little rinses don't kick the heater on so when I got to the shower it was hot at first, then cooled, then got hot again. So you have a choice, waste gas by leaving the water running when you aren't using it or living with colder "hot" water.

Your better bet is a hybrid. It will use the heat pump when it can, electric elements otherwise. I didn't replace the on demand with one though because the heat pump needs minimum 60° water and if that is what I have in the summer, I'm screwed in the winter. The basement gets down to freezing sometimes. I had to put a heat tape on the intake and outlet pipes of the pressure tank (they froze one year) and run the condensate drain for the on demand water heater to a bucket because the water in the condensate pump freezes. The pump HAS to be basically on the floor since the bottom of the water heater is only about 12" up.

If the (soon to be your) water heater is NOT in the basement or the basement stays warmer, look into a hybrid.

I had one of the early tankless models and it worked great maybe the newer ones are junk now i dunno. I do have an old style fill then wash washer not a newer spray and spin type though i will be buying those a well with in a few years. Not sure on the well water temps for here. We may just replace with a standard hot water heater then i was just wanting to have a smaller heater for the most part because of its location in the basement. You have to go down the stairs and around the furnace and hot water heater to the corner of the basement where the washer/dryer live, seems like it would get annoying after while.

The furnace and hot water heater are both in the basement right next to each other. I assume the basement stays warmer but i dont know, i do know the furance is a 120,000btu model. Also found it is an Amana GL 120 and the manual for it was printed in 1967. I called Amana about a replacement gas valve and they told me the model number wasnt long enough according to the parts department, until i told her the manual for it was from 1967. She asked me to send her a picture of the metal plate for the furnace so i have but im pretty sure the answer is going to be, we dont have a part for it.

misfitmorgan · Sep 20, 2017

Baymule said:
For the calcium deposits, use cow magnets. Place them on the pipe nipple coming out of the well tank. I think they are placed opposite poles to each other. My parents had calcium crud on their faucets and they used cow magnets. It even cleared the deposits off the faucets.

I will give it a shot, dont think it would hurt anything.

We also checked water pressure. Turned on all the faucets, the pressure didnt change....i dunno how but it didnt. We did notice the bathroom drain and toilet are slow to flush so we will need to clean the lines out or possibly get the septic emptied.

Baymule · Sep 20, 2017

If you wind up having to replace the furnace to clinch the financing, here's what to do. Write it into the contract that you have 30 or 60 days after closing to do so. We had to replace the furnace, outside unit, wiring under the house and breaker box. It was written into the contract that we had 30 days to get it done and furnish proof in the form of contractors invoice marked PAID.

You sure don't want to replace it BEFORE it is yours.

Yes, clean the lines and have the septic pumped.

CntryBoy777 · Sep 20, 2017

I doubt it is the septic, if those are the only slow locations....boiling water and a snake should solve that issue. Those traps are the first to slow from hair clogs.

misfitmorgan · Sep 20, 2017

The only other drain is the kitchen sink. lol

We would have to write it in for sure Bay!

Bruce · Sep 20, 2017

T-9

Well water will be whatever the temp is at whatever depth the pump sits (*)
Then depending on the size of the pressure tank and how long the water sits in it, the water entering the water heater could be as high as basement temp.

That 1967 furnace is likely inefficient as all get out, efficiency and conservation weren't a big concern back then. The new one might pay for itself fairly quickly in "saved" propane. YOU shouldn't have to pay the HVAC people to come and fix it (if possible), the appliances ARE supposed to be functional, no? The appraiser can do his job if the furnace doesn't work, he'll just drop the value of the house to account for that. If the furnace CAN'T be used, the price paid for the house should go down since a working furnace is (I ASSUME) in the contract.

* assuming "in the well" pump. If a jet pump in the basement, whatever temp the ground is at the depth of the intake pipe

In any case, water at depth is a pretty static temp year round regardless of the air temp.

misfitmorgan · Sep 20, 2017

I'm sure the furnace is inefficient we are on natural gas though not propane...not that that means i dont want to have as small a bill as possible lol.

The contract for the house was being sold "As Is" because it is a foreclosure. The loan officer talked to the appraisal company and her boss and they said the furnace must be on and working for the appraisal.

A "deep well" here is 100' or more deep also know as an irrigation well, they do not go dry. There is a pump in the basement as well as the pressure tank, both look pretty modern.

Bruce · Sep 20, 2017

Bizarre. The house appraises based on what it is, what is in it and what condition those things are in. Now the bank can choose to not make a loan for a full time residence that doesn't have a working heat source but that is another thing altogether.

And @Baymule's suggestion is good, you should have time to replace the furnace AFTER you buy rather than having to do it BEFORE you buy the house. The bank can't both sell "as is" and require everything to be in working order to get it appraised by THEIR approved appraiser. After all, it is THEY who require the appraisal on the house THEY own. In fact, since they are both seller and lender, THEY should have had it appraised when they put it on the market. As you said, it may not even be possible to fix a 50 year old furnace.

BantammChick · Sep 21, 2017

misfitmorgan said:
So.....i got pictures! I have a lot more on my camera that i got last night these ones are just off my phone.

Firstly Issac Bitten...watching the livestock.
View attachment 20397

Mr Pig our mini Boar giving me the stink eye
View attachment 20398

Moon our Mini Nigerian Buck and Ruger our Alpine Buck
View attachment 20399

A Very Prego May #1
View attachment 20400

and a Slightly less prego White May
View attachment 20402

Missy Mini Mancha
View attachment 20403

Lucy Mini Mancha (Missy's daughter)
View attachment 20404

Ella
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Honey...Suffolk Ewe very sweet girl
View attachment 20406

Some of our replacement hens, just started laying
View attachment 20407

LOVE your billy.... I have one who looks just like that!

misfitmorgan · Sep 22, 2017

Bruce said:
Bizarre. The house appraises based on what it is, what is in it and what condition those things are in. Now the bank can choose to not make a loan for a full time residence that doesn't have a working heat source but that is another thing altogether.

And @Baymule's suggestion is good, you should have time to replace the furnace AFTER you buy rather than having to do it BEFORE you buy the house. The bank can't both sell "as is" and require everything to be in working order to get it appraised by THEIR approved appraiser. After all, it is THEY who require the appraisal on the house THEY own. In fact, since they are both seller and lender, THEY should have had it appraised when they put it on the market. As you said, it may not even be possible to fix a 50 year old furnace.

I think there is some confusion here. The house is being sold as is by the foreclosure company, the house is owned by chase atm though. My bank is a CU locally and does not own the house. The house was appraised when it was foreclosed but that was 2 yrs ago and the gas valve could have ceased after the fact. I signed the as is contract to purchase the house as part of my purchase offer, my CU had nothing to do with what i signed. The CU requires a "whole home heating system" in all primary residences it issues mortgages for because without it if the house isnt winterized the water lines will freeze and break then thaw come spring and destroy the house. They also dont want people living in primary residences without water and heat for obvious reasons.

BantammChick said:
LOVE your billy.... I have one who looks just like that!View attachment 38640

Thank you, i agree he does look a lot like mine i had.

Newest update. Repair man was there yesterday and he agreed it was the gas valve. He located a direct replacement gas valve. Repair cost total $243 and the gas valve is getting installed at 10:30am today then he will light the furnace and we can give the all clear on getting the appraisal done. Hopefully that is the very last hurdle we have to jump before closing.

T-?

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