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6 mo. old kid not rebounding like others after deworming. Why?

Discussion in 'Diseases & Injuries - Goats' started by Elsie_May_Huston, Sep 28, 2016.

  1. Sep 28, 2016
    Elsie_May_Huston

    Elsie_May_Huston Exploring the pasture

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    10 days ago all the goats on the farm were given ivomec. One kid in particular was in a dire state, he was thin and staggering, I think it was a severe case of worms. It took a while but he seemed to be getting better slowly after his deworming medicine. He was showing more signs of enthusiasm for hay and attention, even starting to call out again. But today he looked so skinny as if he suffered a major setback and his gums were pale again. All the other kids seem to be doing fine (even the other ones that were in bad shape), so my question is why is this one kid still sick? He is a big goat (one of the first kids born) and was healthy and strong all summer. He has had diarrhea for quite a while now, but no other kids do. Any ideas for what might be going on? Is this the normal process for ivomec and am I being impatient? These are not my goats so I cannot give them any medicine or make executive decisions. PS: The kid has had all the penicillin that the owner can give him for the time being.
     
  2. Sep 29, 2016
    NH homesteader

    NH homesteader True BYH Addict

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    He could very well have either coccidia or a form of worms that the dewormer didn't work on. Or if he was really wormy and malnourished and the worms were removed too quickly it can cause internal bleeding. It could be a lot of things.

    It sounds like he needs to see a vet. Definitely need to have a fecal sample checked by a vet to confirm worms and/or coccidia.
     
  3. Sep 29, 2016
    babsbag

    babsbag Herd Master

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    @NH homesteader said all the right things. Get a fecal sample to a vet. I would also get him some Red Cell for anemia.
     
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  4. Sep 29, 2016
    alsea1

    alsea1 Loving the herd life

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    If it were me I would submit a fecal sample to a vet.
    In the meantime as stated above red cell.
    If you have it available try to entice him to eat some blackberry leaves.
    The worms and pen. could very well have caused his little rumen to loose the good bacteria so that his ability to digest has been compromised.
    It would not hurt to give him a qulity probiotic.
    A vitamin B shot will also help his tummy and get him eatting.
    Time is of the essence. Goats go fast.
    The owned needs to understand this or start digging a hole.
     
  5. Sep 29, 2016
    Green Acres Farm

    Green Acres Farm Loving the herd life

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    Ivermectin does not kill coccidia which cause anemia, diarrhea and a lot of other problems. They are protozoans, not worms.

    Also, checking gums for anemia is not accurate. Eyelids are better. But, a fecal is definitely a must so you know exactly what your dealing with and like @alsea said, probiotics and fortified vitamin be complex would be good along with red cell.

    What ivermectin dosage did you use? It is not what is labeled on the bottle.

    I would not give antibiotics before a fecal. I think @Southern by choice had a goat with a clear fecal with loose stool and it did end up being something bacterial so needed antibiotics, but antibiotics will not treat worms and coccidia and you don't want to overuse it to lead to resistance.

    Hope he gets better soon!
     
  6. Sep 29, 2016
    Goat Whisperer

    Goat Whisperer True BYH Addict

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    Many de-wormers kill the adult stages. If the goat has or had a very high load, it will take several doses to have the desired affect.

    Definitely have the fecal checked, as the others mentioned. This will give you an idea on what you are fighting against. Not all wormers are created equal. If the goat has liver flukes, it needs to be treated with ivermectin plus, or another wormer labeled for such use.

    He shouldn't be dealing with internal bleeding. You would see this soon after you wormed him, not 10 days later.

    Is the goat still up and walking around?
    How bad are the scours?

    Supplementing him with b-complex injections would probably benefit him as the others said. I'd be giving lots of probiotics, electrolytes, and kelp as well.
    Slowly introducing feeds like calf manna, beet pulp, and alfalfa pellets along with his feed and minerals will help give extra nutritional support.
     
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  7. Sep 29, 2016
    Southern by choice

    Southern by choice Herd Master

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    Yes, a fecal is in order.
    If their is a bacterial infection this can cause other issues.

    My first thought is coccidia. But without a fecal you have no way of knowing.

    X 2 what everyone else has already said.
     
  8. Sep 29, 2016
    Elsie_May_Huston

    Elsie_May_Huston Exploring the pasture

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    Thanks everyone for your concern and farming wisdom! I talked to the vet today and they said a fecal was not necessary since I can see the worms in the stool (and since the goats have been drenched already, maybe?); as for a test for coccidia, I will have to wait to hear back from the vet. There is no livestock vet in the area and the lab tests are not done in house. So treatment for goats here is not a regular thing. I hope to hear from them on Monday and then find out how long the tests take (they are shipped to the Vancouver area) and if they can be done at all.

    The sick goat (Marlon) is moving around, he sticks with the herd, grazes and is drinking water and eating mineral and hay. He seems in good spirits, he's just so skinny. Perhaps I'm not being patient enough? I saw another large, flat worm (tapeworm?) passed in the stool so maybe these things take more time to work?

    Marlon got 5cc of Ivomec.
     
  9. Sep 29, 2016
    babsbag

    babsbag Herd Master

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    I can't believe they said that a fecal was not necessary, obviously not a goat vet. The thing is there is no way to know if the wormer worked without the fecal. And any vet should be able to check for cocci, just like they would for a cat or dog. Tapeworm needs to be treated with Safeguard, 1cc/10 lbs for 4 days in a row. Ivermectin won't get rid of tapeworm Did you say that his eyelids are pale? Tape do not cause anemia.
    ( @Southern by choice...am I right about that? )

    Is that the injectable Ivermectin and did you give the Ivermectin orally? That is a pretty high dose, I usually do 1cc/40 lbs.

    If you can't get a fecal then I would treat for cocci. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. Better than losing him. The diarrhea really bothers me, that just isn't right. Have you taken his temp?
     
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  10. Sep 29, 2016
    Green Acres Farm

    Green Acres Farm Loving the herd life

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    Ivermectin does not kill tapes. Since you see worms, I would use Valbazen. The dosage is 1cc per 10 pounds I believe. How much does that goat weigh? 5ccs is a lot if ivermectin. (I'm assuming the 1% injectable.

    I don't know why the vet didn't want to run a fecal... If he has coccidia then you would know and ivermectin doesn't kill every kind of worm... Do you have any other vets in your area? Any vet should be able to at least tell you what they have even if they can't do an EPG count. I think some people here mail in fecals for ~$5.