Ataxia, loss of muscle tone, 104 degree fever, rapid onset in filly

LotusBeachFarm

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I recently had a 16 month old APHA filly show severe neurological and high fever symptoms. One day she was perfect, and then I walked out to find her laying on her haypile. The vets were concerned for EEE, there have been a few cases inmy area (south FL)... and one my vet had elsewhere that same day... Equine Herpes, West Nile, and possibly EPM. I have alot of experience with EPM cases, and while the neuroligical was symptomatic for that, the rapid onset, constant laying down, loss of 120 lbs in 4 days & 104 fever are not. I dont know much about EEE or herpes, but we tested anyway. Unfortunately it was a holiday weekend, and while those were run here, the EPM had to be sent out, and was going to take nearly a week. I recieved the results on everything but EPM... all negative, and I was not suprised because she has been vaccinated for everything. However, she was still rapidly declining, and i was getting desperate, preparing myself for the loss of this filly that I have only owned for less than 2 months. On a fateful chance, the third day, my vet located someone with a spare open tube of Marquis, and I gave it a try... I didnt know what else to do, and the test was still three days away from being done. By the time I recieved the positive results, my filly had and 75% turn around after starting THE MEDS FOR ONLY 3 DAYS! She is an extremely odd case, not presenting normally, and reacting 2-3X as quickly as any others I have encountered with EPM. Two weeks later she has turned around 110%. She looks and feels better than ever. On a whim, I tested the other horse I purchased from the same farm, at the same time. They are half siblings, but he is a 3 year old draft cross paint, same father, both born and raised on the property. He too tested positive. Some of his manerisms had me concerned, but it was attributed to lack of work. I started him on the meds as well... this is expensive, but my gut said to do it, and I know that I am rarely wrong in this. His symptoms also began to turn around in 4 days. I have spoken to the vet, it should not happen so quickly, but I am a horse person, I know my animals, and it did just that. I am posting this for two reasons. 1) This abnormal presentation had there not been a vet working as hard as mine was, reaching out to other vets and universities, and doing all she could immediately... is the only reason I still have my mare. If one or two people happent to read this and help their own or another's horse, then it has done its purpose. 2) I am not trying to slander anyone, but I do feel confident that these two had EPM in their systems before I bought them. While it is not the end of the world, I am luckily in a position that while it is not easy to afford, it is possible. That being said, that is an additional $3500 +++ in testing and medicines to what I had to spend to buy them.... I want to advise anyone that has purchased from BHR in Florida, that if you're horse has any ataxia, muscle tone loss in the hind end, uncoordination, etc. save your time and money and test for EPM. There is no way that I bought the only two cases to ever come out of there. I do have another mare that is in perfect health, no problems with EPM that has been on the property for a long time, so if it was here, she would have it, not them. I am not blaming the farm, I love them both for their exceptional disposition, but It is fair to let others know what else my be coming along with it.
 

w c

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Well, I think it depends on what sort of mannerisms the other horses had that cleared up, that might make it seem more or less possible.

But too, it's not clear that the horse really was suffering from EPM or actually had some sort of infection or disease that had a brief and severe course.

The doubtful reaction of the vet makes me wonder. Vets are not always wrong, in fact often they are right. If a vet doesn't think it really was EPM, he may be right. He may not have really wanted to argue about it when you were clearly so upset, but also, he may have seen dozens of cases just like or similar to your horse's right in the same area and county. Often they see a pattern of a virus going around an area.

If a horse would look acutely sick in that way and really have EMP, or recover because it was given Marquis, that extremely fast. Generally it takes a long time for the animal with EPM to improve - at all. And they don't always fully recover.

I've seen horses get that sick that quick from a virus they picked up at a horse show that showed on no tests. Tests are specific to specific viruses. There are a lot of other viruses circulating around. Older horses can carry these viruses without even getting sick. A horse that went on a trail ride, to a show or clinic, or even just visited another barn for a lesson, could have brought the virus over. Sometimes horses get that sick from tick fever too. There are many possibilities.

In the incident I remember, wiIthin 7 days all the horses in the barn had the virus, for a short period of time, some were very, very sick, we thought one would die. Some were much sicker than others. Some of the older horses did not get noticeably sick but ran temperatures. If horses have had a similar or same virus before they may not get as sick.

So I am not sure if the horse had EPM myself. It especially bothers me the idea that the horse could have gotten over it so quick. That's very odd. It's so odd I would doubt EPM.

Too, the sellers could just as easily say the horses got sick on your farm after you bought them.

I know you don't think that would be true, but they can just as easily say that as anyone can say they sold those horses knowing they had EPM.

If I were you, I would remove the name of the farm from your post. Any public statements against them need to be made very carefully. You could actually wind up getting sued yourself, if they lose business due to your comments.

No, I am not siding with them. It is just that you need to know that anyone could just counter by saying the horse got sick on your place after it was sold. Most likely you had no vet exams of the horses done pre purchase? No EPM tests before buying? So anything would be hard to prove.

I don't know much about EPM, but I do know a great many horses in the US test positive for EPM on certain tests. That they test positive, doesn't mean they are going to or have gotten sick from EPM.

That an animal gets suddenly sick in the way described, and suddenly recovers, that recovery isn't necessarily due to the medicine you gave the horse. Unfortunately it's just not that simple.

I wish you all the best and hope your horses stay healthy.
 

goodhors

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In our experience, the horse with ongoing EPM will show definate improvement within a week of getting the daily Marquis. This is the horse who is acting weird, NQR, crabby, sore. Has not "been himself" for a while when to work with.

The other kind of EPM, what we call Sudden Onset EPM, has horse being pretty normal one day, then stumbling, falling, no coordination on the next day. These do not seem to recover with any kind of meds back to useful. In fact all the ones we knew with the Sudden Onset EPM had to be put down, unsafe to be around since they could not control themselves with nerve damage.

Depending on how much damage has been done since horse got the EPM and getting medicated, many will recover to be useful or sometimes only enough to be a pasture decoration. The way horse presents can be attributed to MANY things, so often people don't check for the EPM until permanent damage has taken place.

We did the less expensive blood test for EPM, which said he had it. The spinal tap test then was about the same cost as the Marquis dose for a month. Vet said get the meds, spinal is usually contaminated the first time anyway, seem to ALWAYS need a second spinal, so double cost at the College Clinic. Marquis won't hurt the horse regardless, and again, horse WILL SHOW improvement in a week to see if it helps him. We got TERRIFIC results within the week, finished the 30 day session.

Vet said he never would have thought horse had EPM. No real signs except us complaining he "was just off, not himself, CRABBY, and had pulled off his shoe TWICE". We are REALLY familiar with this horse, have owned and used him for years. He had NEVER pulled a shoe for ANY reason, very handy on his feet, never interfered in any use!! We were thinking signs of age, arthritis, and did the EPM test to just rule it out.

Catching the EPM so early, horse made 100% recovery, has been back in work and is himself again. No physical issues left.

Vet said lots of local horses carry the EPM, but it doesn't spread into nervous system until horse gets stressed. Could be showing hard, sick from something else, which lowers his immune resistance to the EPM. Our horse was showing hard, traveling alone which he was not used to. Just going out a lot to many activities. So he was stressed adapting to these things.

With possums running about, pooping in the fields, most grazing horses IN THE STATE of Michigan will be carrying EPM, will test postitive like ours, says our Vet. His own horses carry it, but don't go out to show, so no issues that need medicating. He found out when he offered the use of his horses for an EPM study, but the College could NOT LOCATE any MI grazing herds that were UNCONTAMINATED, to use as a test group!! Kind of a shock to all at the Vet College! EPM is everywhere.

Anyway, we were pretty lucky with our EPM case. Have heard of other cases developing like ours, things just building on other things, fianally getting the EPM diagnosis. All I have talked to said they saw VISIBLE improvement in the week after starting the Marquis.

There is the newer test done at Davis I think, called the IFAT. Supposed to be accurate and cheaper than the spinal tap.

Hope your horses recover well.
 

LotusBeachFarm

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The vet did confirm that it was EPM, though the symptoms were aypical, but not unheard of. I have seen several cases and had two in a university study, so i have had alot of exposure to slower cases, just not one so fast. Luckily it appears as though we did catch it in time. Also, these are both very young horses, so the possibility of a complete recovery is still there. They have not been around any other horses since coming to my property. I purchased them a month and a half prior from the seller, and both had been born and raised there. Both did react positively to treatment with Marquis, I have seen a thoroughbred filly from the track run one course of it and recover in the same fashion, with little to no permanent damage. I am not on here to point fingers or blame, I doubt that anyone had been tested there for it, but I do feel like I should give others a heads up. The likelihood that I purchased TWO horses there, both spontaneously get it in a month on my farm, and my 9 year old mare has not? OR that I happened to get the only TWO to ever come out, equally doubtful. I am not trying to lay blame, however, If it can help someone not have to spend 1K in tests, instead try the EPM test from the get go, it increases the chance of a favorable outcome for all. Also, if they get the same strange symptoms, they may be able to get it in time as well and save the life of their own horse.

As for the spinal tap... I know they are a thousand per try, and have seen one horse get three unsucessful attempts. They have tests out of UCDavis and Kentucky, both rely on bloodwork, and have been found to be very reliable.
 

goodhors

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Sounds like they could have had the EPM, but only got stessed after purchase, to allow the protoza loose into the nervous system. Starting to show stuff then only after the 6 weeks elapsed after purchase. We were about 8 weeks into new activities with our horse, when he did the shoe thing that required attention! Our Vet sells $100,000 horses raised from his herd. EPM gets into the best kept horses around!

If buyer doesn't ask for a test result, EPM is not something that is regularly tested for. I would not point fingers either, EPM happens. Certainly not a test I would think to ask for in buying! I would give the sellers a call, tell them about your young horse's problems just as information sharing. They might want to test and treat for EPM. Save them some grief down the road.

I have heard the Davis IFAT test is reasonably priced, under $45 from a person who had used it. Cheap enough to do a second test for confirmation to a positive EPM first test. Our spinals at the time were about $400, which was about the cost of the Marquis. The blood test had already TOLD us horse carried EPM , so we went with the Vet and administered the Marquis. Two spinals, $800 to find out something we knew already, seemed like wasted money since we STILL had not started treatment for that money! Add on the next $400 for meds, with costs jumping badly!!

The IFAT is more accurate than the blood now, similar price range, so I would probably test that way now. IFAT was not available back then.

There is now a second medication for EPM treatment, about the same cost as Marquis. However it doesn't seem to agree with all horses. So if you need treatment options they have it. We just used Marquis according to instructions, worked fine. Horse was turned out alone, kept very quiet, not ridden or worked during the 30 days per the Vet.
 

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This will be a shot in the dark but I once dealt with a horse that had similar symptoms. It turned out to be Encephalitis. I don't know if a mosquito bite is the problem but It sounds Like IT could be...But would the blood tests be able to tell the difference between ecephalitis and Myeloencephalitis ? Yeah not sure....may give my vet a call tomorrow, just for future reference
 

LotusBeachFarm

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Marquis for 400??? Where is that?? My 28 day supplies are 800 for the 4 tubes, or 200 per tube. The blood tests also run 250. So I just paid quite a bit more.
 

goodhors

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Checking sites, it does appear your prices are more common now than mine. Our horse was sick several years ago, so maybe costs have gone up quite a bit. The $400 was what the Vet charged for the meds, and other folks said that was about as cheap as it got, after treating their horses. You got 4 tubes for the money. Our vet did not think giving him the meds for more than the 28 day run would have any better of an effect. Marquis is NOT going to fix broken nerves, regain lost athletic ability, smooth body function of gaits. They might repair themselves over time, nerves are real good at regrowing. However it is a big maybe in self-healing.

I do hear of folks who continue treating with the Marquis for MONTHS! Even then, it sure added up to a lot of money!!

I guess if you wanted to bargin hunt among sellers, you could get a prescription from the vet, send it to the cheapest place for your order. Sometimes you can save a huge amount, buying direct.
 

LotusBeachFarm

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Wow, thats the opposite to when I had dealt with it in the past. Marquis when I had gotten it for a thoroughbred about 5-7 years ago was 1000 for 28 days, and that was going directly to Bayer in Canada. The old medicines when they were still in the experimental phases were thousands, and like trying to feed your horse concrete. The treatment is to keep them from getting any worse with the hope of a possible recovery. Horses that have alot in their system often try two cycles, but most of the cases I have read up on that went that route were in older horses that relapsed after initial doses.


The younger the horse and earlier you catch it, the better the results seem to be. I am fortunate, both of my current cases are responding extremely well to the marquis and diet I am using for treatment. Of course, with work in conjunction, and I have them out alot to constantly keep their muscles going. I am confident that it was EPM, and horses, like humans, do not all manifest the same symptoms, and can hit anywhere.

I did not want to start a debate, or cause trouble for the sellers... and I did call them, and recieved a cool reply, to the point I do realize that they would NEVER reveal it to another buyer if they call in a similar situation, so I felt compelled to put it out there in case someone else does experience it in their horse(s).

As for the source of the stress, I am sure that the big move to a new farm along with the 4.5 hour trip it took to get back was probably stress enough for the yearling, and I know the 3 year old had been undergoing ground driving training, so maybe that is why he had it start up, but his was gradual, and his signs were present at purchase, I just did not realize that was the cause, not laziness or lack of work.

Either way, they are getting better daily, and I have high hopes for the future, I am not crying over damages, etc. I am happy they are both alive and well, and finally beginning to thrive as I had hoped they would from the start.
 

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