- Thread starter
- #31
B. C. P. Journal
- Thread starter KellyK
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #32
- Thread starter
- #33
- Thread starter
- #34
- Thread starter
- #35
KellyK
Loving the herd life
She had a singleton ewe last Friday.
purplequeenvt
Herd Master
Ok.......
Starting with the ewes.
Ruby is a gray Katmoget. She has to carry moorit because she's black based and yet had a brown lamb. She might also carry the graying gene.
Ezri is a black based gray. She carries a gene for solid (no pattern) as well as a gene for graying.
Heather is also a black based gray. What's interesting about her is that unlike most gray shetlands, she doesn't have the classic "sugar lips" or gray rings around the eyes. That makes me think that she may not have the graying gene, but instead has a modifying gene that changes her solid black fleece to a shade of gray. That might make her Emsket, but I'm not positive. She could carry moorit based on her registration paper.
Gerty is a fawn Katmoget. She has 2 copies of the moorit gene so bred to a moorit ram, she will always have moorit babies. Bred to a black ram (black is dominate to moorit) her babies will be at minimum carriers of moorit. She does not look like she carries gray.
Wrangler is obviously white. The question is, what is his actual base color? Based on what you got for lambs from your ewes, he has to at least carry moorit. I think his pattern genes are for white and gray. Next time you get your hands on him, check his tongue color. Pink means that he's moorit, blue/black means that he's black.
Now for the lambs......
Primrose is Katmoget and carries the graying gene. I can't tell from the picture whether she brown or black based. You can't go off of the brown on her head or legs because most Katmogets get that gold/brown color regardless of base color. Take a look at her belly between her rear legs, is the hair there black or brown? You can also check her tongue, but it would probably be quicker to check her belly. If she is black, then she'd be registered as a gray katmoget. If brown, then as a fawn katmoget (I might use musket katmoget to indicate that she carries gray, but that's just me).
Violet is solid and graying patterned moorit lamb. She'd be registered as a musket.
Katniss would be registered as a white, but she looks like her base is black based on her dark nose and eye rims.
Iris is musket. The spots she had at birth are just an expression of the graying gene (possibly she carries 2 copies of the gene??)
Yin is gray.
Yang is white - again, check the tongue color to determine base color.
Rose is musket.
Registration papers can only go so far in helping figure out the color genetics in your flock because a lot of people mislabel their sheep. One of my 1st ewes was registered as a white (she was actually mioget that carried gray) because her original farm registered based on the color of the fleece. Her fleece was pretty much white and so that's how she was registered despite the fact that she absolutely was not white and never produced a white lamb in her life. I found a few errors in some of your sheep's papers. The most notable one was Ruby's sire. He's registered as a dark brown gulmoget. There is no way that he is gulmoget unless the sheep listed as his parents are incorrect.
Hopefully that helps and didn't completely swamp your brain. I was getting a little dizzy re-reading it.
Starting with the ewes.
Ruby is a gray Katmoget. She has to carry moorit because she's black based and yet had a brown lamb. She might also carry the graying gene.
Ezri is a black based gray. She carries a gene for solid (no pattern) as well as a gene for graying.
Heather is also a black based gray. What's interesting about her is that unlike most gray shetlands, she doesn't have the classic "sugar lips" or gray rings around the eyes. That makes me think that she may not have the graying gene, but instead has a modifying gene that changes her solid black fleece to a shade of gray. That might make her Emsket, but I'm not positive. She could carry moorit based on her registration paper.
Gerty is a fawn Katmoget. She has 2 copies of the moorit gene so bred to a moorit ram, she will always have moorit babies. Bred to a black ram (black is dominate to moorit) her babies will be at minimum carriers of moorit. She does not look like she carries gray.
Wrangler is obviously white. The question is, what is his actual base color? Based on what you got for lambs from your ewes, he has to at least carry moorit. I think his pattern genes are for white and gray. Next time you get your hands on him, check his tongue color. Pink means that he's moorit, blue/black means that he's black.
Now for the lambs......
Primrose is Katmoget and carries the graying gene. I can't tell from the picture whether she brown or black based. You can't go off of the brown on her head or legs because most Katmogets get that gold/brown color regardless of base color. Take a look at her belly between her rear legs, is the hair there black or brown? You can also check her tongue, but it would probably be quicker to check her belly. If she is black, then she'd be registered as a gray katmoget. If brown, then as a fawn katmoget (I might use musket katmoget to indicate that she carries gray, but that's just me).
Violet is solid and graying patterned moorit lamb. She'd be registered as a musket.
Katniss would be registered as a white, but she looks like her base is black based on her dark nose and eye rims.
Iris is musket. The spots she had at birth are just an expression of the graying gene (possibly she carries 2 copies of the gene??)
Yin is gray.
Yang is white - again, check the tongue color to determine base color.
Rose is musket.
Registration papers can only go so far in helping figure out the color genetics in your flock because a lot of people mislabel their sheep. One of my 1st ewes was registered as a white (she was actually mioget that carried gray) because her original farm registered based on the color of the fleece. Her fleece was pretty much white and so that's how she was registered despite the fact that she absolutely was not white and never produced a white lamb in her life. I found a few errors in some of your sheep's papers. The most notable one was Ruby's sire. He's registered as a dark brown gulmoget. There is no way that he is gulmoget unless the sheep listed as his parents are incorrect.
Hopefully that helps and didn't completely swamp your brain. I was getting a little dizzy re-reading it.
- Thread starter
- #37
KellyK
Loving the herd life
The tongue color of all of the lambs (we have not checked Rose as of yet) has been pink. We will be checking again before I put in the registration paperwork because I think I am sure there are errors in the previous registrations.
Primrose is a yellowish brown now. So I would call her (based on what the colors are described on the NASSA site) Mioget now fawn. She has gone very pale. She also is a pain to get a picture of as she will stare at you and as soon as you go to click she turns away or puts her head down.
Iris is an interesting one. She has lightened an incredible amount. She is facing the camera in this picture. Violet is the one facing away.
Katniss still looks like she has on makeup. Blackeye liner. That is the best I can do to describe how she looks.
I think you meant Ezri, not Ruby. Ezri's sire is listed as dark brown gulmoget, not Ruby's.
Rose is grey/white colored closer to the skin and she has touches of grey/white at random spots. She is also the only lamb that went limp when I picked her up. Didn't even cry out for Mama. All the others screamed for mama. Rose didn't make a peep and she played dead. Want to talk about stopping your heart. We also did a complete search of the upper pasture for any more lambs, because she was so quiet.
From what I have been told, Heather was as dark as Yin is when she was a lamb and she lightened up to what she is now. Which makes me think Emset would be the correct color for Heather. I also think she may be Krunet. She has the "sugar lips" but for some reason, it doesn't show up on the side shots. Here is another angle.
She looks like she ate a powdered donut and wiped most of the evidence away. I only got this particular picture of her because I had graham crackers which I found are her favorite of all time treat.
The colors are not what I expected from any of the sheep. My head has not exploded as of yet. My husband would fill my head with facts and such about big rigs. Rather have information in there that I can use like sheep colors and markings. LOL
Now to look for a new ram for the girls my husband plans to keep. The plan is to sell one lamb from each of the twins and keep the other one. Yang will be wethered if we do not find a new herd for him. He is sweet and funny.
- Thread starter
- #38
KellyK
Loving the herd life
purplequeenvt
Herd Master
You're right, I did mean Ezri. Like I said, I was making myself dizzy.
I would guess, and it's just a guess since I haven't seen her in person, that she's not actually mioget. She's probably a fawn that's been washed out by the gray gene.
I have a few sheep like that. My Shetland's tend to be very photogenic, but there's always that one sheep that, as soon as you point the camera in their general direction, is hiding behind the other sheep. And it's always the one that you absolutely need a picture of.
That is what is so cool about Shetland genetics. Two sheep can have the same basic color make up and turn out completely different. The amount of fading that Iris has already is what makes me wonder if she carries double graying, but there's not a good way to know for certain.
Yup, I can see the sugar lips now! That's a tell tale sign of the gray gene. She wouldn't be Krunet unless she has a white patch on her head. I'm only seeing gray floof on top, not a spot.
The problem with all of these color names is that there isn't a clear definition of what each color actually is. Like is Emsket just a shade of gray or is it controlled by a specific modifying gene. That's why I generally stick to the basics of black, moorit, gray, and musket when registering. A solid fawn colored sheep supposedly is a moorit sheep with a modifying gene that changes the body color, but nobody seems to really understand or is able to track those genes well. Of course that is part of the frustration with registration papers because so many people have thrown around the colors without really understanding the genetics behind them so you never really know what modifying genes you might have lurking in the background.
I will have my guy available if you are interested. He'll be old enough to wean on the 18th, but I normally leave the Shetlands on their moms longer than 8 weeks. He's solid moorit, no gray so he should stay dark. His horns are looking good so far (his dad had one of the nicest sets of horns I've ever seen). His fleece is looking like it is going to be an intermediate type fleece. Not a ton of crimp, but should be soft.
I would guess, and it's just a guess since I haven't seen her in person, that she's not actually mioget. She's probably a fawn that's been washed out by the gray gene.
I have a few sheep like that. My Shetland's tend to be very photogenic, but there's always that one sheep that, as soon as you point the camera in their general direction, is hiding behind the other sheep. And it's always the one that you absolutely need a picture of.
That is what is so cool about Shetland genetics. Two sheep can have the same basic color make up and turn out completely different. The amount of fading that Iris has already is what makes me wonder if she carries double graying, but there's not a good way to know for certain.
Yup, I can see the sugar lips now! That's a tell tale sign of the gray gene. She wouldn't be Krunet unless she has a white patch on her head. I'm only seeing gray floof on top, not a spot.
The problem with all of these color names is that there isn't a clear definition of what each color actually is. Like is Emsket just a shade of gray or is it controlled by a specific modifying gene. That's why I generally stick to the basics of black, moorit, gray, and musket when registering. A solid fawn colored sheep supposedly is a moorit sheep with a modifying gene that changes the body color, but nobody seems to really understand or is able to track those genes well. Of course that is part of the frustration with registration papers because so many people have thrown around the colors without really understanding the genetics behind them so you never really know what modifying genes you might have lurking in the background.
I will have my guy available if you are interested. He'll be old enough to wean on the 18th, but I normally leave the Shetlands on their moms longer than 8 weeks. He's solid moorit, no gray so he should stay dark. His horns are looking good so far (his dad had one of the nicest sets of horns I've ever seen). His fleece is looking like it is going to be an intermediate type fleece. Not a ton of crimp, but should be soft.
Senile_Texas_Aggie
Herd Master
Huh?
