BOZ SHEPHERD DOGS

[MonsterMalak]

[This thread is being opened so as to not dominate the others. I would like to ask that people wanting to argue, bash, discredit, insult, or just show their ignorance, please find another outlet for their obviously lacking lives. I and others will answer all the questions to the best of our ability. Much information is on my website www.monstermalak.com. Links to over 3,000 pictures of Boz, information on Turkish LGD breeds, 60+ pictures of Guregh (Boz) in the Urfa Mountains, and all the information I could compile is on there.

The Boz Shepherd Dog is an Ancient Landrace Regional Working breed of LGD from the Northern Urfa Mountains which are in southern Turkey. They are a breed that has developed in a harsh climate, and with severe culling. It has produced a dog that has a combination of characteristics not seen in but a few breeds.

Only recently being brought out of the remote area they were developed, they are gaining recognition as a distinct breed as they are being introduced to the world. The FCI is being petitioned for recognition at this point.

They have a natural LOW PREY DRIVE, strong Love or Bonding Nature, are Defensive, and have the size and strength to handle nearly any threat. They are employed as LGD's, Family Guardians, Security of businesses, Police and Personal Protection Work and just as family pets. Their size is quite larger than most breeds, with 32-41 inches tall, and 150-260 pounds. They have long legs and a distinct structure to the breed. It is a common Western mentality to presume that they must be a (English Mastiff Cross) as that is the Largest Breed that everyone knows. But step back and ask yourself. How can you breed a bulky shorter legged Mastiff to a smaller Shepherd dog and get a dog that is LARGER (with regard to height) and have a completely different structure, head, appearance and physical abilities.

As many Turks say, "Why would we breed a MASTIFF into out dogs. They are a crippled breed. They would not last in the mountains"

They will be recognized in the Annual Dog show in Istanbul Turkey on Sept 25th of 2011.

Please feel free to ask any questions. As my LOVE and ADMIRATION and KNOWLEDGE for the breed will be shared.
And to note, this is not a sales pitch, as orders to fill for pure pups will take years, going to 12 different countries.

 

[elevan]

At what age are these dogs "put to work" as LGDs? Specifically what age can they be safely left with young livestock?

Being such a large dog, would they be happy to guard stock on let's say 3 acres of land?

And if that land is surrounded by neighbors who have dogs themselves, would the dog only consider them a threat if they penetrated the fence barrier or would they be constantly trying to get rid of the threat just to the other side of the fence? I'm thinking a 5 foot high field fence could easily be jumped by a Boz...

Having personally owned an LGD (only a llama as a guard), what is the difficulty level for training a Boz as compared to the other LGD breeds out there?

 

[MonsterMalak]

In the Urfa Mountains, the age of the pup to go out on the 200-600-mile, 6-8 month trek for grass would be 8-12 months. Untill then, they stay with the livestock at the village. All livestock is brought back in the winter, with the LGD grown dogs.

My dogs are happy in a 7 acre pasture, and others have the roam of the countryside.

My neighbors dogs come to visit, and are tollerated as long as they show submissivness. Including a Min Pin, Miniature schnauser, and basset hound. Guessing the coyotes would not lay down and pee for them, as they pursue them with zest.

I put an electric wire half way up my fence, standing out about a foot. Has worked great so far.

Others either stick at home (kangals or boz), or roam some. Never a neighbor complaint. A neighbor across the highway on his 40 acres got rid of his LGD (was having problems), as my dogs keep the 1/2 to 1 mile area clear of coyotes. he tells me that he sees my dogs running them out of his pastures at night. Other neighbors have seen my dogs heading home in the AM, 2 miles from the house. Then all day, they lay in the yard. Like a teen sneaking out at night.

But we do not hear the coyotes howl anymore! Guess either they stay back some distance, or are scared to announce their presence.

Have a great day!!!

 

[rockdoveranch]

Post removed. Please do not start drama here.

 

[MonsterMalak]

Inflammatory and trolling post removed.

 

[lgdnevada]

Inflammatory post removed. Please do not add to the drama

 

[elevan]

What would you say are the remarkable differences between the Boz and the Kangal? I tend to like the sheer impressive size of them both. But what are their differences that would make someone choose one over the other?

I am asking out of pure interest. I'm very happy with my llama...but there will come a time when he will either die or be unable to protect my livestock....at which point I've decided we'll replace him with an LGD. Whether it'll be a Boz, Kangal, GP or another breed I can't say for certain...but with hopefully years to do research by that time I'll be able to get the perfect breed for me.

Post edited. Please use the report button and let the Staff handle any issues. Do not add to the drama

 

[lgdnevada]

The Boz of course is larger, larger boned, taller, more muscled up...
In terms of temperament I am seeing more similarities than differences. Sweet, devoted and loving with owner.
With anyone else, high suspicion, very alert and watchful, and until introduced, standoffish. But once introduced
and if they think the person is 'ok' - they are fine.
Both breeds very athletic. Kangals have an intensity about them, when fighting predators or other dogs or going after something,
that sets them apart from say, some other LGD breeds. And so far as I can tell the Boz seems to have this as well. My little one
Ekin is already alerting at the back porch steps (she hangs out there in heat of day). Over food, she is already showing other dogs that
"possession is 9/10's of the law!" and has kept off dogs three times her size off of a food bowl. That food possession trait is also found
in Kangals, I would say in comparison to other breeds, to the extreme. Although, I am seeing how my Spanish Mastiffs meet them
eye to eye on this; no one messes with their food either.
Brian's Boz are older and he'll be able to add more accurate info as my girl is yet so young and she is my first one (the male I brought
over having passed shortly from distemper).
But melt your heart sweet personalities with me. Just submissive, very sweet, playful, protective. But hell on predators and anything else.
One extreme or the other, to the max!

 

[MonsterMalak]

Thanks Mod,
I would request that you remove the objectionable slander, and my response in defense.

The differences with the Boz and Kangal are slight. And the variance between individuals is probably greater than between breeds. But compared to Great Pyrenees, the only other LGD that I have had experience with (Beside a GP/Anatolian cross), Both Turkish breeds Kangal and Boz are a whole different dog.

The Pyrenees tend to guard with intimidation, and hold their ground. Although most tend to roam. Not that i do not like GP, in some instances, they are best.

The Turkish breeds are go out and chase off or remove the threat. Are more people friendly, submissive as opposed to aloof, but instant BEAST when a threat presents.
In areas with heavyer predator pressure, the Turkish breeds would prevail. In areas with Large predator areas, the Boz would have an edge. 2-3 Boz would easily be able to repell a pack of wolves.

In Australia, the kangal is the ONLY LGD that can fight a pack of Dingos. They tend to kill the leader, or more, then the Dingos leave. And to kill a Dingo while the others are fighting them must be a feat.

Please do not think that i am against other breeds. Just think that under certain situations, some breeds might be better. the need, work, predators, livestock, surounding dynamics all need to go into selection of a breed.

thanks,

 

[lgdnevada]

Spanish Mastiffs are much more aloof and distant than Kangal and Boz. SM are affectionate, and will come to me for rubs and attention, but are then quite content to meander off, be in the goats all night, and guard. They are not 'velcro' dogs like some breeds which want to constantly be by your side. Much more aloof, dignified, almost fastidious in behavior. Not to be mistaken with sullen, just very self confident, self sufficient dogs. Kangals are a little less aloof. Another Kangal trait I noticed, they are homebodies, they like predictable patterns, schedules, they bond to a place and like to stay there or have that be their home base. Not prone to wander off like Pyrs might. I think my Boz girl is like this too. She picks a sleep spot and that's her sleep spot. My mastine on the other hand will change favorite hideouts during the day where they go to be cool, shade up and sleep after being on guard in the goats all night. Whereas Elmas my adult female Kangal, has her place she likes to be at night, hands down, no variables.

Health issues: due to their primitive nature Kangal and Boz have little if any issues I know of and have experienced zero issues with either breed yet. Not predisposed to growing pains like mastine will have, or HD, or other structural problems. I think this has to do with their being primitive, not raised in a pampered way; litters are culled, also some bitches in Turkey not pampered at all and if the pups make it, they are tough to have made it that far....

Also, all this rigamarole about fighting dogs - well fighting the males in Turkey is one way the Turks decide which bloodlines will pass on - the toughest, the winners of these fights, get to breed the females. And the fights are not to the death UNLIKE us dear Americans who illegally fight pit bulls and other breeds in backyards and fields, it is often to the death or horrible injury to the other dog. In Turkey, the dogs are separated before there can be too much damage done to them. Yes they have scars and bites but not shredded into chopped liver, like some people would have you wrongly believe. Oh and I do not no nor have I ever fought dogs. Nor do I breed them for fighting. Who ever started that BS I hope has a good attorney on retainer.

The reason you don't see more Kangals around has been due to the death grip the KDCA has kept on the breed in this country (FYI they are NOT in good graces with most Turkish breeders in Turkey), deciding who can own one, forcing spay/neuter contracts, invasive applications and vetting of owners, and demands that go above and beyond any common sense. Now that other people are breeding Kangals outside the KDCA's 'permission' they have gone into overdrive slandering us who have good, purebred quality working Kangals and who are only trying to make this wonderful LGD breed more attainable to the average Joe out there with a hobby farm or herd, who can't drop $2500-3500 on a puppy like the KDCA people would price them at. So, indeed, if folks are hearing a lot of hyperbol against what I and Brian are doing, it only stands to reason because we've rocked the boat and status quo by bringing over these dogs, and giving people options, and more importantly, not denying them the right to breed eventually if they choose. I think for this reason you WILL start seeing more Kangals being used soon because people will now be able to attain something that has been basically controlled by a few people for 20 years in this country. The KDCA is 20 something years old, and they only have FOUR KDCA breeders on their website that are 'approved'. This speaks volumes to me.....