Breeding Questions including AI option

[WindyIndy]

I know there is already a thread started on this, but didn't want to high jack it. I thankfully still have a year and a half to breed, but want to get somewhat of a plan down.

As most of you may know, I just bought my first Dexter heifer celebrate), I planned to bring her to the place I bought her from for breeding, but the lady and I got to talking and she said ideally you would want the bull to stay with them for a month since there cycle lasts for about 21 days. That would be fine for the first milking, but what about the second when I need to freshen her? The lady can't do the milking, so that won't work. So I'm thinking the AI would be the best route, but I don't know much about that, and I don't want to spend a lot and "miss it". I'll have a vet do it, but what if we don't time it right? Also, can I not keep it in a normal freezer? Does it have to have the nitrogen?

Like I said, still need to do my reading and I have a few years thankfully, but I figured it's never too early to start learning!

PS: Could I also maybe only breed her every two years instead of one? Or do they start losing milk production too much by then?

 

[Green Acres Farm]

I don't know very much about AI, but yes you have to have a nitrogen tank which are a little pricy (~$300-$500), but you could be really improving on the next generation.
If your vet or another breeder already has one you could ask to use their's?

 

[cjc]

I have one Jersey I milk but I know next to nothing about milking cows, only beef. But @farmerjan can definitely help you.

AI service for Dairy cows where I am is quiet cheap. I couldn't get Dexter semen but I can get Holstein or Jersey cheap and they will take care of the AI. I wouldn't buy the set up I would hire a company.

 

[jhm47]

Semen straws very definitely need to be kept in liquid Nitrogen. A freezer will not be anywhere near cold enough to preserve the viability of the sperm. Most vets know how to AI, but don't really like to, since their time is much better spent on more lucrative endeavors. There should be AI techs in most any area who are very skilled, and usually will do a better job than most vets. I personally AI for a young vet that I know very well. He was in my older son's class, and they are very good friends. This vet buys open heifers each year for resale (50 - 100 or so), and has me AI them for him. He does a few himself, but I can usually do 5 - 6 during the time he does one. He is much faster than I am at preg checking though! My forearms are much bigger than his, and I have trouble with my shoulder when preg checking. Usually we only need to go into the rectum of a heifer about halfway up to my elbow to AI, but preg checks you need to go deeper, and that's when my shoulder starts to bother.

I often work with a crew of young AI techs who are much faster than I. We utilize a "breeding barn", and can usually average 50 - 60 head per hour. If you'd like to see how a breeding barn works, just google Genex Breeding Barn. There are several youtube videos on that. I'm even in one of them. Good luck!

 

[purplequeenvt]

AI isn't too hard to coordinate. The easiest way for us (we only have 3 cows) is to give them the shots to getting them cycling so we know when they should come into heat.

Since you are looking to breed to a Dexter, I'd get in touch with your local AI company and find out if they carry the breed and if not, could they get some for you.

 

[farmerjan]

@jhm47 pretty well clued you in on the semen and liquid nitrogen. He's handled alot more straws than I have as a regular Genex tech, as I was only a relief tech for Select Sires here in Va. Most of the dairy farmers didn't used to do too much synchronization, but they do now. With one cow it will be a little trickier, but first things first. Get her bred for her first calf. Yes they come in heat every 18-24 days, 21 being the avg., so it would probably be as easy to leave her at the breeders for the month, providing that you get her there when you think she is in heat the first time. Otherwise if she has just gone out of heat, and you take her, then you will have to wait 2 plus weeks for her to come back in, then another 3 weeks to make sure she doesn't come back in heat. Then, talk to whatever AI company is in the area. Although they will naturally push "their" semen, if they don't have dexter, see if they can special order it from a supplier, or you find a private breeder that has dexters and sells semen. Then get it shipped to them, they will store it in their tank and use it to breed your cow when she comes in heat. You are paying for the service so most will store a little bit for private owners. Look at the references in the other thread that (I think) Bruce listed; there are alot of dexter breeders all over the country. If you were going to store alot then you would need your own tank but a few straws or 1/2 cane should be doable.

Yes you can go 2 years between calvings....but, the cow will fall way off in milk, especially a first calf heifer. And if you are thinking that you would dry her up and take her back to the lady with the bull then you will be without milk for at least 9 months if she settles on the first breeding. But you won't have just 1 cow at that point...you will have her calf unless you sell it as a baby. The calf might be able to help the cow show a heat... that said, since you will get to know your cow pretty well, there will be some changes in her attitude or behavior or milk production that will help you to determine if she is in heat. Maybe fence walking, mooing alot, trying to be extra friendly to you or even trying to ride you, not letting her milk down, being a royal *****, not wanting to come in the barn to be milked....Any change in normal behavior will signal a possible heat. Any clear discharge from her vulva, switching her tail alot....And you will be able to learn some of these signs when she is a heifer before you take her to get bred the first time. So do the research on the different dexter breeders/bulls available, find an AI company in your area and then make some phone calls or visit some closeby dairy farms. Also, check with your county or state ag services, like the county co-op here in Va and they can probably tell you about the availability of AI in the area...BE PREPARED for some sideways looks and such when you tell them you want dexter semen as the rarer and the "smaller" breeds often have "cattle people" looking at you like you are a little off.... Most will rib you a bit but won't mean anything bad...just what they aren't used to seeing. I love belted cattle and am constantly given a hard time about how they aren't worth anything....which on a commercial scale they aren't here.....but I still like them and to h***with what other people think!!!

 

[WindyIndy]

Thank you all for your advice! I found out my local vet doesn't do AI, so they refereed me to a guy who may do it or know of someone who does, he is an hour away though. =/ I then had a friend tell me that the big dairy farm down the road from us does their own AI and that the guy there might be willing to do it for me. I have yet to contact him but I sure hope he does, the really nice thing about that is that he's less then 5 minutes away!

As for bulls, I've been looking at this page. Thoughts? http://www.dextercattle.org/adca/adca_ai_bulls.html

Would it be better to wait for a natural cycle or induce one (my friend said this could be pricey)? And what age do you all feel would be the best time to breed her? She was born in May. The lady I got her from said to breed her after she turned 2, but then another dairy friend of mine said to breed her at 15 months so she's calving at 2. I mentioned this to the lady and she said you can do that, but that it tends to set the heifer back, especially the Dexters since they're so small. She said you would really have to watch and up her protein, calories, etc.

Oh! And Luna is coming home tomorrow!!! I'm so excited!!! Pictures will be posted soon!!

 

[farmerjan]

Okay, get LUNA home....now the standard thoughts are to breed at 15-16 months to get a calf at 2. Yes it takes alot out of the heifer as she is going to be growing, carrying a calf inside, then lactating and still growing and then you are going to want to get her bred back... Personally, and I say this knowing there will be people disagreeing; we wait to try to calve our beef heifers out in the 30 month range which means waiting til they are 19-22 months old to get bred and then calve 9 months later. It works for us as we are mostly grass fed and I want a little more age/maturity on the heifer when she gets pregnant. Also, we have found that they are a little more "settled" as far as disposition, and are more mature and ready AND ABLE to take care of a calf. Plus I find we have less calving problems, and they tend to milk a little better. Not what alot of people preach.... I am also of the same feeling on my dairy heifers.

Giving them an extra 3-6 months growing time when they are young just seems to work for us. We do not feed alot of high protein/high energy feed so they grow a little slower. Commercial dairies feed to get optimal growth as soon as they can, and it costs to do that. But you are still putting alot of strain on a young system. To me it's like a teenage girl having a baby at 14 or 15. Yes she can, but should she???? Why not wait til she is 18 or 20? Cattle continue to grow until they are 4-5
years old. Plus something else to consider. When do you want her to calve?? January in the cold or April in the spring or Sept in the early fall?? Some of our heifers are pushing 3 when they calve as I want the calves in a spring group or a fall group. I prefer to calve all first calf heifers in the spring so their bodies can take advantage of the lush grass to both grow and produce milk. But we have started calving out a group in aug-sept to better utilize the time . Don't know how I will like the calves as this is the first year we have had a fall calving group of heifers. Will wait to see if they continue to grow and mature with the colder weather also putting their bodies on a higher stress level.

Don't induce her to come in heat as a heifer....you are not trying to sychn a group together to get them all to calve in a 30 day window. Much better to let nature work for you and alot cheaper too. Again, if you start messing with her system, you are increasing the chances of a problem down the road. Let nature work on it's own. Besides, you have at least a year to just see how she does before you even have to think about it. I honestly would let nature do it's job first. Since they are a small breed, I would be inclined to listen more to the breeder, and do some research....you've got plenty of time to do that.

If the dairyman down the road does his own AI it would be wonderful if you could get him to do yours; being that close would be so convenient. And by doing his own, he also would have his own semen tank, so if you could get semen shipped in he would be able to store it for you. You might have to kick in a little; it costs about $20 every 2-3 months to get the nitrogen in the tank "refilled", which the AI company that he gets his dairy semen from, does on a regular basis. So if he would store a 1/2 cane which would be either 5 or 10 straws, then you could offer to pay him the cost of one nitrogen fill or something. He will probably charge you like $15-35 for the breeding service and the semen will already be yours (paid for when you order it). Many farmers around here that do it for a neighbor often say just give me a couple dollars towards gas or something. And there are many that say hey, it's only 1 cow don't worry about it....That's when you give them a gift certificate to a restaurant or something at the holidays....

Get her home, and then see how she does, how she grows etc. I would tend to wait until she is at least 18-20 months old then breed her for a fall calf in 2018. She will be 2 1/2 or so when she calves, and you will have to feed her good, to make sure she continues to grow or you will stunt her. Or wait and breed her in June-July of 2018 for a spring calf in 2019 when she is nearly 3.

A couple things about the bulls on the dexter site. Due to studies, try to stick with a bull that is A2/A2 for the beta casein protein as it is supposed to be more digestible and preferable . Most jerseys and guernseys are A2/A2. I would also try to stay away from any that are carriers of the chondro genes, since you don't need a possible dwarf calf being born and probably stay away from the pha also as it can cause problems. Mostly just read up on them, find out if the lady you got yours from has had any geno-typing done so you know what you are dealing with. Will she have registration papers? If so, you have a good guide to seeing what is in her make-up as far as recessive genes. You have time to do all this and be as well informed as you can be for future breeding....