Bulls Please read

Icp7147

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First off I am a new member and looking through the archives i have seen alot about keeping bulls for breeding or even pets. I work on a farm and have worked on them sense i could walk. 25 years on farms. dairy and beef cattle. You can never ever ever trust a bull. The tamest bulls make the worst killers because you trust them and dont see it coming. I have had many run ins with bulls. I had a uncle that raised beef cows and his red angus bull at 3 years old would still suck your fingers like he was a newborn calf. This is the same bull i found walking around the barn with a metel stantion around his neck. I had a 3 year old holstien bull that had to be droven into the barn with the skid steer or pickup truck just to feed the cows. I have had a red and white holstein bull over 1 year old drive me through a sliding door when i went to do chores at the hefier barn. I have seen another holstien bull that i had to drive onto the beef trailer with the skid steer because he tried charging anyone that went into that pasture. I have been chased up onto freestalls by them. I saw one bull take and throw a zimmerman gate ( very heavy duty metal gate ) 10 feet in the air just trying to go under it. With AI there is almost NO reason to keep a bull around. Bulls are dangerous for even the most experienced handlers and should not be kept by a novice. Please take this serious. I could right a novel about bull horror stories but I think you get my point. Thanks for listening
 
I agree with ICP, Bulls are not for novices, and can be very dangerous. AI is an excellent way to prevent this problem, but is just not feasible for everyone.

However, if no one ever worked with a bull, everyone would be a novice. I was a novice at one point, and so was ICP. If one must have a bull, it should be done right.

A person just starting with bulls should stick with an easier to handle breed........which rules out most dairy breeds right off the bat, esp Holsteins. I wont recommend a specific breed, because each breed has its share of crazy bulls. We've never had a polled hereford that was crazy, though. BUT.........

Our bulls are carefully selected from well bred stock with good dispositions. We dont take anything that acts aggressive, even if standing in a field of hot cattle (in season cows). We dont take anything with questionable hooves or health. We also dont breed any cows that have a less than nice disposition. Any bull that needed special equipement to be driven would be shot on site here.

If you must have a bull, look for a bull out of a herd with good dispositions, from a farmer who looks at this characteristic in breeding his/her bulls. Get an experience cattleman to help you and guide you through the ins and outs of owning a bull.

Also, even with the most gentle bull, have the proper equipment. A strong chute, and stout press, and a hard enough heart to cull, cull cull for aggressiveness......at the FIRST sign.

Our bull is a sweetheart. He loads into the trailer without drama. He walks into the chute and press for his shots like a champ. We can walk out to the field, thru the herd with him in it and he is fine. He's never pawed or bellowed at us, never shown any aggression to a person, and never given us a reason to not trust him..........but he's got that darn scrotal sack, sooooo we dont get to make kissy face with him. We watch him carefully, and treat him with the same respect that we expect out of him.

Bulls are a possibility, with CAREFUL consideration as to what bull you select, what YOUR own personality and capabilities are, and the equipment you have to use on said bull.
 
I got to thinking about it, and I think that ICP had a good idea in starting this thread. We do get alot of members here just starting out with cattle, and having questions about bull ownership.

We all have our horror stories about bulls. I have a few of my own, from working on the dairys and from working bull chutes at the local rodeos (when I was young and indestructible, lol) However, just telling horror stories doesnt really educate anyone, it just scares them. A little fear is a good thing, but an education is needed too.

I wrote an article on handling, and was going to make an edu-page out of it, but decided against it because I thought that there were others on here that have bulls and may have valuable information to add. ICP, it sounds like you have a lot of experience handing a variety of bulls, I'd love to hear some of your methods.

I hope that those of you who do keep bulls will chime in and be frank and honest while respecting others views and opinions.

While suing AI is the safest route to take if possible, there will always be a few that cannot or will not use AI, and therefore will have a bull. Perhaps we could offer them some tips that could help them handle their livestock in a safer more productive manner.

anyway my article: (it's late, scuse the typos)

So, you want or need a bull? Maybe you saw the cutest little bull calf at the auction and you just HAD to have him?

Well, youve got some work to do.

If you just bought a little bull calf, castrate him. He will soon be very big, very strong and very hormonal. Hand raised bulls are *THE* most dangerous bull to have. They do not learn the social skills and normal herd mentality of a dam raised bull. They see people as their herd, and when they mature enough their hormones WILL tell them to challenge herd members (meaning YOU) to gain social status within the herd.
Castrate your bull calf.

If you want him as a pet, castration will be safer for you and for him.

If you wanted to breed him, you need to slow down and do your homework.

Youll need to purchase a bull from someone who has breed out of a herd with a good disposition. Youll need a bull from a healthy herd. An auction bull is neither of these.

Youll need good study equipment, a chute and a press strong enough to handle a large angry bull, because if you own a bull, you will at some point have a large angry bull.

Youll need a tough enough heart to cull a bull with a sorry attitude, and youll need to be tough enough to do this at the FIRST sign of aggression without excuses. If you cannot cull quickly and harshly, you will need to AI your cattle or find another type of livestock to deal with. Aggression can be pawing at you, bellowing at you, swinging the head from side to side (often flinging spit), standing broadside and flexing the neck. Often they will raise the hair on their spine, bug the eyeballs out, and horn trees, bushes etc. Very often, a bull in an aggressive mode will not make eye contact with you. CULL at the FIRST sign if hostility.

OK, so now, you have a bull that is sound, healthy and from a head with a good disposition. NOW WHAT?
Youll need to learn to handle your cattle safely, youll need to learn to read them. Youll need to understand that a very important part of reading a bulls behavior is to NEVER take your eye off them or let your guard down in anyway.

To be blunt, a bulls job is to breed. He has a harem of sorts, at his will, and he LIKES it. YOU come in an tell him to go here when he feels he should go there. WHY should he listen to you? His women are more important, and your interruption is annoying. He has better things to do and YOU are in his way. Learn to deal with it, or he will move you out of his way.

Some tips for handling:

Have plenty of help.

Find an experience cattleman to help you for awhile. Have him teach you how to position yourself so that the cattle WANT to move in the direction you want them to go. This is so much better than trying to force them.

Be Calm.

If you have to move or drive your bull, plan on moving at his speed. Pushing too hard is a sure fire way to irritate him. Speak in low tones, never yell or scream.

Keeping yourself calm will help keep your cattle calm.

Dont let your guard down.

This is esp true if one animal is not cooperating. By focusing on this one animal, your attention is off the rest of them. Always have a buddy there to watch your back.

Try to have a panel or some kind of strong barrier between you and your bull at all times. You can have a reach stick to put thru the panels and LIGHTLY tap the bull (never ever hit, NEVER, hitting a bull is a sure way to get hurt).

Make noise.

But not a lot of noise. Soft tones, gentle voice, gentle words.these will help soothe the cattle and help them to know where you are, preventing any surprises for them.

Check your equipment before you start

Are your chutes well maintained? Are all the gates in the proper positions? You want to avoid all surprises, for both you and the bull.

Dont let your Bull get worked up.

Dont rush him, dont ask him to hurry. Get rid of barking dogs, loud music, squealing children.

If possible, move a few cows with him.

NO cattle prods. I mean really. ZAP= angry bull= very dangerous situation.

Give the bull space. Dont crowd him. Crowding will frighten him and he will run over anything that gets in his escape route.

Speaking of escape routes:

Plan an escape route for yourself

Even if your on the other side of the fence/panel etc (where you should be to begin with). Know beforehand where you will go if he gets angry.

Know when to quit

If you or the bull gets frustrated, its time to stop. Period. Just stop.

NEVER FORGET

That a rampaging bull does not intend to hurt you. He FULLY intends to kill you, and when there is nothing there to stop him, he will not quit until the job is done. Dehorning gives you some protection, however, Ive seen many cattlemen gored to death by an unhorned bull.

NEVER FORGET..that every bull is hormonal, every bull feels that he and he alone is in charge. He doesnt love you, he doesnt want to please you, he doesnt want to make kissy face with you.he just wants to breed his cows and you are interrupting his day.

If you can AI your cattle, please use this method.


If you MUST have a bull, please, be responsible. Dont use hard to handle bulls, its more dangerous for you, and in the end, you are only breeding more cattle prone to a snotty attitude. Use the buddy system and find an experience cattleman to help you.
 
I think you hit the nail on the head. I would like to add a few things.
1. We never ever encourage head butting, while it is funny as a calf it is deadly on a mature bull. In general we try toavoid petting or scratching his head.
2. I recomend a ring in the bulls nose. As a last resort you might be able to grab it. I have heard of bull rings saving farmers lives.
3. If you pasture a bull, tell people he is there. Salesmen, Friends, family ect. Nobody needs to be out there.
My post was only to try to educate people. I understand their are times when bulls are needed. We bred all or heifers to bulls. I just also know that they are a major liability to have around a farm or homestead.
 
We run jersey bulls where I work and from what I've been told the reason jerseys are considered one of the most dangerous is that they are apt to 'turn' without warning. Most ours hit the road at a pretty young age, partly to get new blood, but most will start to get mouthy--not a good sign. We have one bull now who is wicked mellow, but we're are still not supposed to pat or make nice with him.
 
Icp7147 said:
I think you hit the nail on the head. I would like to add a few things.
1. We never ever encourage head butting, while it is funny as a calf it is deadly on a mature bull. In general we try toavoid petting or scratching his head.
2. I recomend a ring in the bulls nose. As a last resort you might be able to grab it. I have heard of bull rings saving farmers lives.
3. If you pasture a bull, tell people he is there. Salesmen, Friends, family ect. Nobody needs to be out there.
My post was only to try to educate people. I understand their are times when bulls are needed. We bred all or heifers to bulls. I just also know that they are a major liability to have around a farm or homestead.
excellent points!
 
Thank you all for the great advice..."How dangerous are Holstein steers???"

As we hope to raise several...and what weight and age would be in the safe zone for both butchering and marketing???(steers)
 
BuettnersLittleFarm said:
Thank you all for the great advice..."How dangerous are Holstein steers???"

As we hope to raise several...and what weight and age would be in the safe zone for both butchering and marketing???(steers)
Holstein steers are considerably less dangerous as steers than as bulls because the testosterone producing organ (being the testicles) have been removed.

I am only going to answer your first question since your other thread is involved in that very discussion. I still think you should go with beef cattle instead of dairy. But that's for another discussion.
 
Dairy bulls are the worst over beef bulls, and there are two reasons why:

1. Dairy cows are selected for milk production, which means there is higher selection for femininity in dairy cows than what is selected for in beef cattle. When dairy producers select for higher femininity in their cows and heifers, they are unknowingly selecting for more masculinity in their bulls. Higher masculinity in bulls means more testosterone is produced in such bulls which means they're nothing short of a ticking time-bomb waiting to go off.

2. Calves are separated after birth (like a day or two after) and put on the bottle. Bottle-fed calves are less fearful and sometimes even a bit less respectful of humans than calves that are suckling from their momma (the cow) because they are regarding these humans as not only their source of food but a part of their herd as well. When you get a bottle-fed bull calf, it's no surprise that they're going to be regarded as the cutest thing in the world and get treated like a human or a pet. Because bottle calves consider humans as a part of their herd, when a bottle-fed bull calf reaches puberty or starts acting like a bull and displaying bull behaviour, he's going to see those humans as a part of his herd and something that he needs to be dominant over. This need to be dominant over people instead of other cattle is where it gets very dangerous very quickly.

When castrated, these bull calves will become a bit mellower and less of a case of boxed-up hormones ready to fly open. However, this doesn't mean that that makes them any less dangerous. Of course a steer is going to be mellower, but they're still bigger and stronger than you and still will catch you in a corner if you rile them up enough to do so. I've had my boss, a veterinarian, get charged at and trampled by a nasty piece of work of a Simmental-cross steer when they were trying to get him loaded up with his cows. That steer was wild, literally, and uncatchable. The only way to "catch" him was to hunt him down like you would with deer and shoot him with the rifle, or even tranq him so that he's dozy enough to get on the trailer without much fuss. So yes, steers can still be dangerous. I was even charged at by one when I was very little, and that wasn't exactly a pleasant experience either.

And don't forget cows as well!! You may think bulls are dangerous but cows can be just as bad. And they don't have to be all hormonal with a new calf at side, they can be nasty even with no calf at side.

But with the topic of bulls, they need to be handled with the utmost respect and you cannot trust them. You must also make sure they know that your the Top Bull or Top Cow of them, otherwise if you're not the top of the pecking order things may take a turn for the worse.

Of course this is easier said than done. Best way to gain the top authority is by using cow/bull-psychology instead of brute strength, since you'll never match the brute-strength of a mature bull. But you can out-do them by using the stuff between your ears. ;) One way is to herd them around or chase them off from their feeding areas. Most of the herd hierarchy is established at feeding time, since it's the rules in the herd that if there's not enough feeding areas to go around, the ones at the top of the pecking order get first dibs first. Note though that this may not be the easiest thing to do (and by some people's standards, not the smartest either), but it is only one of the things you can do to get your bulls to accept you as The Boss. You may have to carry a PVC pipe with you though when you do this in case one of the bulls starts to challenge your authority, or attempts at gaininng authority.

The other thing about gaining authority is that you cannot be fearful, nervous nor hesitant. Bulls will take advantage of this because to them this is a sign of weakness. Be calm and assertive, just like Cesar Millan always tells his clients on his show The Dog Whisperer. Of course bulls are not dogs, but they are animals like dogs and need to be treated as such.

Calm and assertive attitude should be practiced around cattle in general, not just bulls.
 
Holstein steers can be delightful and easy, with some well established rules from day one (these rules should be established with ANY calf, really)

Never allow ANY type of head butting. When they begin head butting at feeding time (and they will at a very young age if bottle raised), simply take their bottle or bucket away for 10 minutes. They will learn that butting for food is not apprpriate. When butting during petting, stop petting and walk away, if you absolutely refuse to slap that nose. I, for one, will not hesitate to slap a nose or smack a shoulder.

Halter train as young as possible. Our bottle babies have a halter on their head before we give them their first bottle.

Try to have more than one calf, to help with teaching and learning herd dynamics. They need their own herd, and YOU cannot be a herd.

Dont play chase or tag. Ever. Its cute now.....but being tagged by a 1000 pound critter is NOT fun. I got tagged once by a yearling steer. He was playing a game that his owners thought was so cute when was little. I was in pain for several weeks, and he ended up in the freezer even though he was intended as a pet.

When a young calf does something "cute" as yourself if it will be cute 1000 pounds from now, if not, then stop the behavior.

A steer, even a holstein steer, can be fun to have, delightful to be around, and make wonderful meat if you so choose, but only with firm and consistent training and enforcement of the rules.
 

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