Can you over feed minerals?

Azriel

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My cows are on average to above average hay, (native grasses,alfalfa, sanfoin) that we put up ourself. They also have a white salt block and a red mineral salt block, and loose range minerals. I also give them a very small amount of cattle cake. Two weeks ago I also put a SweetPro lick tub out for them. I was told that the tub had a balanced blend of chelated trace minerals and that I would not need to have loose minerals for them. The adaptation period on the tub is 10 days to 2 weeks. I still see the cows going over and eating from the mineral feeder, so I was wondering if they can get to much minerals or will they only eat what they need and have not adapted to the tub yet?
 

WildRoseBeef

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Three things cattle will only balance for: salt, water, and feed. The rest is up to us to balance out for them. So to answer your question: yep.

So I think you really need to consider taking out most of these mineral blocks. I'd take out the white block--it's nothing but salt--and remove the loose minerals to see if they'll go for the tub instead. Chelated are more available minerals, but if they're already going for the loose minerals and ignoring the tub, you may just have to save the tub for later, for emergency use only.

I am curious as to what the mineral content of the red block is. Is it just a mix of iron, cobalt, iodine and salt, or are there more to it? I'm not sure about keeping that out too. Also, is there salt in with the loose stuff?

If anything, all you need in the end is just the loose minerals and maybe the red block, but even then, if it comes down to it, just the minerals will be just fine.
 

Azriel

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The SweetPro tub does not have salt and I was told to keep salt out for them. The range mineral also does not have salt. I do not see that they have been at the red mineral block much and was thinking about taking that out and giving it to the horses. The ones I see going to the minerals are the younger heifers and the heifer due in May, I'm wondering if maybe the older cows are not letting the younger ones get to the tub as much as they should.
 

WildRoseBeef

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Well, I know I'm kinda taking back what I said, but now that I know that neither the loose nor the tub has salt in it (though the tub probably has molasses in it for taste and increase palatability?) then I retract my statement about taking out the white block.

I can see now why you are wanting to have both the tub and the loose mineral--to reduce competition between the young and the mature animals. Maybe spread out the feeders farther apart so that the cows get one and the heifers the other, or so that it's not so easy for all your cows to hog all the mineral all at once for longer than need be.

If the horses need the red block, then that would be best. Is it a TM block, at all?
 

Azriel

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The red block is a TM, and that one is going to the horses they are out.
I really want the cows on the SweetPro tubs, they have all kinds of good stuff, all needed vitamins and minerals also prebiotics, probiotics, extra protein, complex carbs to help the rumen work better so feed efficiency is improved by up to 25%. I have already seen a drop in forage intake, I normally put out enough hay to last for a week and a half, and its now lasting just over 2 weeks. The tubs are on the pricey side, so I only bought one till I saw if they would eat it. I guess I'll get another one and put it where the calves hang out so they can get their share. I also worry about grass tetney when spring grass starts, and was told there was a 0% chance when they are on the SweetPro
 

WildRoseBeef

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And no molasses, just a mix of grains and DDGS, a little salt, minerals, and vitamins.

After looking at the SweetPro site and looking at the ingredient listing (seen here: http://www.sweetpro.com/popup/sweetpro-chart.html) I'm liking it too and I can see where the increase in feed efficiency would come in. I think the issues with grass-tetany won't be much to worry about either, the magnesium content looks good, good enough to prevent GT in the future.

I think you done good.

So I think with that sweet pro tub, you don't need the white blocks nor the loose mineral anymore. I believe you'll get enough just feeding sweet pro. It'll save costs if you just go with one mineral/salt source than trying to go for several.

The only time you'll need the white block is if you have a mineral mix with absolutely no salt. Sweetpro has salt, so the salt block isn't needed.
 

Azriel

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Thanks, I'll take the loose minerals away as soon as I get my 2nd tub. All the cows really like it, I couldn't get some of them to even look at the tubs that were molasses based.
 

WildRoseBeef

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No problem. I do hope you keep the salt and mineral you have left for emergency use. You never know when you need it: often the thing you need the most is in the time you least expect it. ;)
 

greybeard

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I don't know which SweetPro tub you are using (they sell several different ones.) IF, you are using either the SweetPro 16(cattle) or the SweetPro16-24(cattle and goats) then they do have some salt in them.

Just so you know that your tub may not be just a mineral supplement tub. It may be primarily a 16% protein supplement, with certain trace minerals and vitamins added as well as molasses.

IF you are feeding one of the other SweetPro products that is strictly a mineral supplement, then there is very little chance they will over consume on minerals. Even with loose minerals, I have never seen cattle over do it. About 3-4-6oz/day per head is all I usually see in beef cattle mineral consumption, and that's all they'll eat because it is all they need. Depends what they are getting in their forage as well.

But, every tub I ever saw, that was also a protein supplement (such as SweetPro and SweetLix) have a warning on them. "Do not feed to under conditioned or starving cattle". That warning is there because starving or underconditioned cattle will pig out on the tub in an effort to take in protein, fat and energy (especially in winter) and in doing so, "may" take in too many minerals along with the nutrients.

I personally use loose minerals and loose salt for my herd. Blocks are not an efficient way for them to uptake enough of either and they will stand there licking when they need to be out grazing--just takes too long for them to lick enough off a block to get much out of it.

About that SweetPro16........ Below is the guaranteed analysis for SweetPro16. (IF) that is what you are using, You see where it says ADF Fiber, Max 8.50% ? That stands for Acid Detergent Fiber. That, is a fancy term for fiber filler. 8.5% of that tub is filler. Not just any old filler. The most non-digestible fiber.

Acid Detergent Fiber (ADF): The fibrous component represents the least digestible fiber portion of forage or other roughage. This highly indigestible part of forage and includes lignin, cellulose, silica and insoluble forms of nitrogen but not hemicellulose. Forages with higher ADF are lower in digestible energy than forages with lower ADF. That means, as the ADF level increase, digestible energy levels decrease. During laboratory analysis, ADF is the residue remaining after boiling a forage sample in acid detergent solution.
Don't get me wrong, SweetPro makes a better product than the cheap tubs you see some places sell but just wanted you to know what you were getting for your $$.
8.5% of that tub, from the start, is going to end up going right out the back end of your cattle.
IF, this is the tub you are using.


Guaranteed Analysis – SweetPro 16
Crude Protein, Min.
16.00%
NPN Max (AS)

Crude Fat, Min.
4.00%
Crude Fiber, Max.
5.50%
ADF Fiber, Max
8.50%
Calcium (Ca), Min.
1.25%
Calcium (Ca), Max.
1.75%
Phosphorus (P), Min.
1.25%
Salt (NaCl), Min.
13.00%
Salt (NaCl), Max.
15.50%
Magnesium (Mg), Min.
2.50%
Potassium (K), Min.
1.10%
Sulfur (S), Min.
0.50%
Fluorine, Max

Copper (Cu), Min.
600 ppm
Selenium (Se), Min.
5 ppm
Zinc (Zn), Min
1,000 ppm
Iron (Fe), Min.
400 ppm
Manganese (Mn), Min.
750 ppm
Iodine (I), Min.
8 ppm
Cobalt (Co), Min.
4 ppm
Biotin, Min

Omega 3 fatty acid, Min.

Vitamin A, Min
100,000 IU/lb
Vitamin D, Min
20,000 IU/lb
Vitamin E, Min
80 IU/lb
 

lhorgus

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Thanks for the info, greybeard! I have been using Crystalyx NP-20 on my two feeder steers to supplement a low-pro grass hay - they are around 10 months old. I am looking into the SweetPro 16 as it seems to offer some better alternatives. I don't see the ADF ingredient listed on the Crystalyx anywhere, though. Does that mean there is no filler? Can you suggest some other things to look for in a protein supplement to help these guys grow? We'll be butchering them this fall. Thanks again!

Laura

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