Can you over feed minerals?

greybeard

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First, if Azieriel is feeding strictly a mineral supplement tub similar to Bovalix, it does not have salt added.
http://www.sweetlix.com/products/C11A22/mineral-vitamin-supplements.aspx
Hard to say with the info provided.
Does labeling accurately reflect if it's product contains low digestable fiber or filler? No. Virtually all feed has some filler in it, usually under the collective heading of "crude fiber".
There should be 2 different labels on a good feed. One is the guaranteed analysis like the one I posted above, and the other is an ingredient label, which is "supposed" to state where the feed is getting the components of that analysis. But, some manufacturers and mills choose to use a collective labeling in the ingredients instead of stating details and that's where problems arise with the end users.
Here's a sample label from Association of American Feed Control Officials using the collective option in the ingredients for feedlot cattle--it tells you very little:
Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein, minimum ..............................12%
(This includes not more than 3.5% equivalent
crude protein from non-protein nitrogen)
Crude Fat, minimum ......................................2%
Crude Fiber, maximum .................................10%
Calcium, minimum .......................................0.8%
Calcium, maximum ......................................1.3%
Phosphorus, minimum ...............................0.65%
Salt, minimum ............................................11.0%
Salt, maximum ...........................................13.2%
Potassium, minimum .................................6.40%
Vitamin A, minimum ........................10,000 IU/LB

Ingredient Statement Ingredient Statement
Grain Products, Plant Protein Products,
Processed Grain By-Products, Urea, Calcium,
Lignin Sulfonate, Animal Fat, Vitamin A
Supplement, D-Activated Animal Sterol (source of
Vitamin D3), Vitamin E Supplement, Folic Acid,
Ethoxyquin (a preservative), Ground Limestone,
Dicalcium Phosphate, Salt, Copper Sulfate,
Manganous Oxide, Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate,
Cobalt Carbonate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium
Selenite.

That /\ doesn't tell you very much (especially if you are an organic farmer) . What kind of grain products? Processed grain by-products? What's that? Plant protein products???
This, is from Sweetlix:
Ingredients A list of the ingredients found in the feed is required on the label. However, in order to
protect the confidentiality of manufacturers’ formulas and to allow flexibility to deal with ingredient
availability, some major ingredients are often listed on the label in collective terms. Some commonly
used collective terms are:
Plant protein products - represents one or more of 41 different feedstuffs including: various forms of
soybeans, cottonseed, yeast and other plant meals.
Grain products – represents any of the normal forms (whole, cracked, ground, etc.) of several grain
products such as corn, oats, barley, etc.
Forage products – represents inclusion of one or more of several different forages including alfalfa,
coastal Bermuda, lespedeza, etc..
Roughage products – represents inclusion of one or more high roughage feedstuffs such as various types
of hulls and pulps (cottonseed hulls, beet pulp, etc.).
Processed grain by-products – as the name implies, includes over 40 by-products of grain processing
including wheat middlings, brewers dried grains, corn gluten feed, etc.
Molasses products - includes various forms of cane, citrus and beet molasses.
Animal protein products – includes various forms of animal by-products. The FDA prohibits use of
mammalian protein sources in ruminant feeds, therefore, most feed manufacturers will not use this
collective term on their label. Some approved animal protein products for ruminants include hydrolyzed
poultry feathers, blood meal, fish meal, whey, dried milk, etc. If animal protein products are included in
goat feeds, most manufacturers will list specific rather than collective terms.
Still doesn't tell you where or which real world sources the particular feed or supplement gets it's ingredients from.

Here's a different sample ingredient label for a different species (just happens to be rabbit feed) that tells you a lot more, and this is what I prefer to find on either a label or on a company's website:
INGREDIENTS
DEHYDRATED ALFALFA MEAL, WHEAT MIDDLINGS, DRIED DISTILLERS GRAINS
WITH SOLUBLES, CANE MOLASSES, ANIMAL FAT (PRESERVED WITH
BHAANDBHT), DICALCIUM PHOSPHATE, CALCIUM CARBONATE, SOYBEAN
MEAL, SALT, VITAMIN A ACETATE IN GELATIN, VITAMIN D3 SUPPLEMENT,
VITAMIN E SUPPLEMENT, RIBOFLAVIN SUPPLEMENT, D-CALCIUM
PANTOTHENATE, NIACIN SUPPLEMENT, VITAMIN B12 SUPPLEMENT,
MENADIONE DIMETHYLPYRIMIDINOL BISULFITE(SOURCE OF VITAMIN K
ACTIVITY), CHOLINE CHLORIDE, FOLIC ACID, B-BIOTIN, ZINC OXIDE, FERROUS
SULFATE, MANGOUS OXIDE, COPPER OXIDE, ETHYLENE DIAMINE

Asking someone in a different part of the country to recommend a feed or supplement is going to generate 100 different answers. There is no "one size (or brand) that fits all. Create your rations in accordance to several different things.
1. A soil sample of your area--this is a good indicator of what is already available to your herd thru nature, as the plants uptake minerals and nutrients from the soil.
2. Since we are in the winter cycle, hay analysis is another good indicator of both protein, fiber, and fat. It and the soil sample test are about the least expensive cost associated with nutrition planning.
3. Check with local producers in your area to find out what is successful. What works here in E Texas may not work very well and in fact may create a train wreck in more Northern areas.But don't necessarily go by what the local feed store sells most of. People tend to cut costs on feed buying--check with local people who make their living raising beef (or any other species). These people neither waste $ or over spend.
 

Azriel

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I'm feeding the 18% tub. I have tried some of the molasses tubs, but the cows wouldn't hardly touch them and I had to give them to the horses to use them up. They will eat anything. The SweetPro came highly recemended, it isn't like the soft molasses tubs, but hard so they have to chew it off, not lick. I have seen improvement in forage utilization and growth in my calves. So far I'm very happy with it.
 

greybeard

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If it works for you and your operation that's what counts. It's hard to know which tub/block anyone uses without seeing the label. I looked earlier today and counted 19 different supplement tubs at the SweetPro website for cattle alone. I don't use tubs much but I do have some out now for my heifers, but once they are gone I probably won't buy anymore. They are a cooked tub (as opposed to a formed tub) from a local mill (about 60 miles away) and formulated for this region, but the "bang for the buck" just isn't there for me as a protein supplement. Convenient factor is a big plus of course. I prefer the cooked tubs (SweetPro calls them all 'blocks') over formed tubs because the moisture content in a cooked tub is lower--most of the water is cooked off--no sense paying for water. You can follow the link above, find your product, open page to it, and click on the 'guaranteed analysis' link to see exactly what is in yours.
We all want good protein levels but this time of year, energy should also be considered. Cattle burn lots of energy in cold wet weather. Corn is very high in energy but very very low in digestible protein. Soybean meal is high in protein but much lower in energy. We have to balance all things. Energy allows the animal to work (walk, graze etc), produce milk, and to store fat. Excess energy not used for "work" turns to fat, which is burned by the metabolism as the animal needs it.
Protein on the other hand builds meat---muscle.
 

Azriel

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The cold weather was one of the reasons I got it, its been -42 here for days on end several times this winter, and even tho I have shelter and free choice hay for them I wanted that "extra" in case I couldn't get home to feed. The block is not even half gone, I'm useing less hay, the cows seem very content, and best of all my replacement heifers have not taken a hit from this winter weather we have been getting. My other big concern is GT as several of my friends have lost some of their best cows in the last few years. I don't know what they use for mineral if any, but I would rather pay a little extra to have what they need than lose cows. Too many people around here let their cows get like concentration camp survivers by spring, my cows might be a little over conditioned, but I would rather have that than walking dead.
 

greybeard

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Grass tetany is always a concern, and cold wet weather can be a contributing factor if really lush green forage like winter ryegrass is grazed without some good hay also available and a source of magnesium.
Once it starts, there isn't much time to give the calcium/Mg injection. :(
 
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