Can you tell me if these were premies? (WARNING: GRAPHIC PHOTOS)

[Sweetened]

Murielle, who we had decided was not bred (showing no symptoms, even yesterday) was moved back into the other pen with the bucks so she could be bred for a fall kid. I went out today to rebed their barn and Murielle was out, nothing unusual. She turned her back to me and I saw blood and rushed in right away (Hopped the fence, gate was snowed shut).

She had twins. A doeling and buckling. They were cooled off but still luke warm and didn't seem to have taken a breath (especially the one pictured on the left, she was still in her sack when I found her, the other had been dried off). Their hooves are soft and mushy, and they are incredibly small for the buck they're from as well as Murielle (who is a Cashmere Spanish), that's a standard magazine (BREW) beside them for reference. They are very skinny as well. She has a very small udder formed, but I'm not sure she could have fed them with what she had. I have a friend coming to help me move her and milk her (since I don't have the stand set up yet).

Can you please tell me if they were premature? I've watched her and the boys carefully since moving her back, and they only chased her for a day ( close to 3 weeks ago now ) and then never showed interest again. They aren't rough with her, especially compared to the other does, and she finally seemed relaxed. She's eating and wandering around like nothing ever happened. I am just so heartbroken and I need to know if this was probably my fault and what to do differently.

 

[Missy]

I am not too experienced with premature goats, If I had to guess, I would say they were though. That is judging by the eyes. They still look buldgey to me. and the back leg muscles look undefined. I have had my pregnant girls "plow" each other pretty good and none have resulted in a miscarriage before. I would not blame yourself. There are a thousand reasons why she could have aborted/went into labor early. Stress, moldy hay, I guess hard abdominal bunting...ect...

 

[Southern by choice]

Not sure but the one looks like it may have died and perhaps triggered labor. They are awfully small and the one's head does not look fully formed. Were there sunken eyes on the one? Were they fully developed? You could have the placenta examined and a necropsy done.

Very sorry for your loss.

 

[bonbean01]

So sorry!

 

[Sweetened]

I'm just so mortified by this. My uncanny ability to blame myself was overwhelming, but I looked at them and thought: That's not what Walter looked like at ALL when he was born. And the feet being soft just furthered that. I thought about doing my own necropsy, but I wouldn't know what to look for, really in this case. So I will give them to the outdoor cats, then their short little lives weren't a waste. The eyes on the one on the left aren't sunken but both of them their eyes looked like cataracts looks, like the iris was formed but the pupil was coloured funny, and I wouldn't say its from being dead, especially in this weather.

She litterally must have had them just after I came in from feeding them only an hour and a half or so prior. She was out eating and when she moved away there wasn't anything to draw my attention.

My friend helped me milk her out. There was nothing there really, maybe 3-6 cc's of milk. Should I keep milking her or just leave her?

 

[Bucking Adoeable Fainters]

Oh my friend I am so horribly sorry. Words do not express how heartbroken I am for you.

My only observation is the baby on the right is definitely further developed then the baby on the left. Its just so devastating. Please do not blame yourself. Anything could've happened. The only thing we do know is they were obviously not healthy, and the mothers body thought to abort was for her survival. Happens with humans too.

Hugs to you. I'm very glad Murielle is doing well, and we have Gretel and Agnes to look forward to.

 

[frustratedearthmother]

They have hair - so that's a pretty good indicator that they were, at least, near term. One pretty reliable sign of a premature birth is the baby's teeth - or lack of. Lack of teeth being through the gums is a pretty good sign of being premature - while teeth being visible generally means they were full-term.

So sorry for your loss.... and the others are right .. don't blame yourself!

 

[Sweetened]

Thanks @frustratedearthmother , they didn't have teeth, but I thought that was normal so never thought to mention it. I checked their mouths to try and see if they had fluid in them or if it was clear, and both thier mouths were filled with fluid.

Should I rebreed her in a couple months for a fall kid, or would it be best if she is left dry until next spring?

 

[rebelINny]

So sorry I had several abortions a few years ago at the same gestation and found out it was moldy hay my husband had been feeding them. I was heartbroken! I lost six around the same time. Hugs. Wasn't your fault, could have been many things. If the one had died in the womb earlier, you may want to think about some antibiotics in case she gets an infection. As long as she seems healthy otherwise breeding in a couple months should be fine. Good luck.

 

[Hens and Roos]

sorry for your loss