Choosing an LGD puppy

[Southern by choice]

I have had pups here literally choose their owners. It has happened time and again. I mean literally leaving the pack walking up to the buyer and sitting down in front of them and staring at them and claiming them. Once when a gal came to pick up her Pyrenean Mastiff pup the pup knew she was at the front gate before she even saw her and dashed all the way out to greet her. The gal thought I had "trained" the pup to do that - heck NO….. These dogs can operate on such a higher level than we know.

A 'goosebumps' story for you - gal came to pick out Spanish Mastiff pup. She chose well. But the pup Chili Verde had a pal in the litter, a brother he stuck with and they ran together all the time. When it came time to go, "Cinco" literally followed the customer out to my front gate - quite a jaunt - and sat down at the gate as she loaded up his brother to leave. I said to her then, "You need to take this one too" but she demurred because she was afraid her husband would get angry. So they get home and opposite happens he gloms on to the pup and says sure go back get another one.

So here they come. And she comes with the first pup Chili so he can be involved in this. And she sets her sights on a handsome black pup, all the time however, Cinco is never far from her or her first pick pup Chili. And finally Cinco comes into my kennel house and sits down on her feet and looks up at her like HELLLLLLOOOOO????? I'm the one! She burst into tears. And he and the first pup Chili Verde were glued to one another. To this day they are an inseparable team.

So what I am saying, open yourself up to listening to the pups in the litter, because one of them may have already chosen you. And trust me it will be the one you should take, hands down, because they know more than we do!

Although this has happened I try to dissuade people from the "oh the pup picked me" ideology. You ( @BrendaMNgri ) and I may be able to see more due to experience and knowledge however MOST people and most dogs that isn't what is happening. If a breeder cannot evaluate a dog and the whole thing is left up to "I'll let the puppy pick me" ... well, how do I say this nicely you can end up with a needy nutjob fearful dog, issues with separation anxiety and other issues.


There are many observations that can be made by someone knowledgeable at 5-6 weeks, however that isn't the whole pic. None of mine go til 12 weeks and preferably longer... I like the 16 week range.
By 6 weeks I can usually tell where their strengths will be and temperament. I have only had a few dogs that really changed considerably.

Keep in mind that although I love the pack (because I have a pack) a pup raised extensively in a pack and moved onto a primarily different environment may not adjust to being a sole or 2 dog environment. This IMO is left to a good breeder to determine. On the flip side some dogs raised in a pack environment may not develop their full potential until removed from the pack.

 

[TAH]

Sure

Ok,
Thanks!!

 

[Southern by choice]

That is one of the reasons I asked. I wasn't even sure how much you could tell about the future of a pup from this age. I won't purchase a pyr again because I have one that is great and one that is not. I don't need another one like Smith (I know you breed great pyrs @Southern by choice and I mean no offense at all). With this breeding I am certain that either one I pick will turn out, especially since Kimber seems so flexible.

The pup has to be shipped and is too far away for me to visit. Also, while I didn't get Kimber until 14 weeks and was happy about that, it was because her breeder had her with livestock. This breeder does not and I want the puppy exposed sooner. I will be getting him at 8 weeks because of this unless there is a more compelling reason for me to leave him there longer.....

The "raised with livestock" has a broad meaning.
Some dogs are raised with livestock and no human interaction, no evaluating of strengths /weaknesses.
Some are raised with livestock and yet no corrections are given and no one watching what they are doing and a pup that has not learned any respect.

A good test for pups and to see where they truly are is to make sure they have separation times from the dam. Some pups are great with mom around but not once they are removed. At 8 weeks this isn't really feasible as they still need mom.

I agree about the Pyr thing. There are great pyrs and there are not great pyrs... what breed is this dog?

 

[dejavoodoo114]

I have not once stated the breed in any post because I didn't want to get angry at people who might be too opinionated.... I have seen them in action behaving as perfect LGD's quite a few times. I have seen the differences between this breed and others in the pack with them. I neither need nor want drama but I am not a push over.... Because of that I prefer to avoid sensitive areas.. But what the heck... They are Turkish Boz Shepherds and I don't want to hear anyone saying they are not a breed. (which is kind of true since they are landrace...) They come from the Mountains of Turkey while Kangals come from the plains. Anatolians are mixes of many Turkish LGD's so think of that type but without irresponsible breedings so more even temperaments FROM WHAT I HAVE SEEN. Okay. I will be off for the next few hours just in case.

FYI, Kimber was raised with livestock with correction and people time and training. Do you think that with a ton of attention from the breeder and no exposure to livestock it would still be worth waiting until later? Can you expand on why?

We feed all our LGD's in the house (we have to give Wesson his pills anyway). They all walk appropriately on a leash, sit, stay, come(when they want lol!), and know how to behave off property as well as behave with the livestock, all but Smith respect fencing. This pup will pair with Kimber as we have no other LGD anymore that can partner them. That only covers a bit of our property and some of our animals. Without more we would have to have one in each pasture to try and maximize protection, but I would worry about losing dogs. I would rather risk certain livestock at certain times so the important ones can be better protected. We will continue to add LGDs until we don't have to worry about another dog being laid up by coyotes.

 

[Southern by choice]

I will be off for the next few hours just in case.

Me too!

 

[Baymule]

 

[babsbag]

Are you saying that these puppies are not around livestock and that the breeder doesn't have any livestock? Did I read that right?

I doubt that anyone on BYH would jump on you for a Boz shepherd. Even if they don't agree with you they will be "nice" when they tell you. I know ZERO about the breed so no opinion or advice.

I have owned 5 LGDs and 4 of those were "that dog or no dog at this time" and they have all worked out, (well, one is a pup so too young to say for sure). Good parental training can do wonders.

 

[dejavoodoo114]

@Southern by choice, are you familiar with the issues? You struck me as understanding!

Thanks @babsbag! Yes, the breeder currently has no livestock. She is getting some but not in time for these pups. That is my main reason for wanting him asap. Also, she spoils them rotten! Steak and squash etc... I feed good quality kibble. But it is kibble. Between school and work and farm and kids I barely have time to cook for the family, I am not cooking for the dogs as well! There will be an adjustment period! Actually, some advice on smoothing the adjustment period will be helpful as well.... And thank you for understanding that we really seem to be in a time crunch. Wesson getting chewed up trying to do his job (which he is too crippled to do!) has really driven that home!

My big hidden concern is that two really isn't enough as much as we have expanded....

And as a side note, I had a hard day at the clinic (nasty mean great dane... and more) and I really didn't need to come out preemptively defensive. Sorry guys!

 

[babsbag]

@dejavoodoo114 I have seen some FB groups where they will eat you alive over the littlest things, BYH isn't one of those places but no explanation or apology needed.

I too would take the dog ASAP if you are set on one of these pups. It is a shame that there is no livestock in the picture. This baffles me a little...like a puppy mill for LGDs? Are you sure you want one of these pups? You said that the parents were working dogs? Still strange to me...I am rambling, trying to mull this over in my mind. I am sure that this is not an easy breed to find, but an LGD pup without livestock in my mind is a little bothersome, hope that the genetic instinct is STRONG.

 

[dejavoodoo114]

@babsbag, thanks again. Yes the parents are working dogs. Like Kimber, the mother was imported from Turkey. I am in contact with the breeder in Turkey. He goes to the shepherds and finds good lines, breeds them, gives the pups to different shepherds to test, then breeds the best. Kimber's sire is still guarding goats in Turkey while her mom is guarding sheep in the US. Same with this girl, she was imported pregnant from good working stock. If I didn't know the background.... yes I would be MUCH more concerned. As it is, I want livestock exposure asap. And yes, I fear it may become a "puppy mill" for LGD's... We will have to see. If she crosses the line she wont get any recommendations from us (and MANY others) and wont be trusted... But the bloodlines..... How much can a puppy be ruined in 8 weeks? That was a serious question...