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Choosing an LGD puppy

Discussion in 'Livestock Guardians' started by dejavoodoo114, Jan 9, 2017.

  1. Jan 9, 2017
    babsbag

    babsbag Herd Master

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    OK, now that I see a little more background it makes more sense. You already own a Boz Shepherd? I went and Googled them, beautiful dogs. I can't help you with the original question, I was just curious about the breeding. Good luck and be sure and let us know what you decide and we will need pictures. :)
     
  2. Jan 9, 2017
    dejavoodoo114

    dejavoodoo114 Loving the herd life

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    Yes, my 7 month old is a Boz as well. They are more beautiful when working! ;) We had planned to buy a replacement pup or two this spring. Then Wesson got sick and bumped our plans ahead. So most of our research was already done. After my experience with Smith and Wesson, well, Kimber was quite the shock despite all we had seen (adults not pups) and had heard. There was no doubt we wanted another Boz after a few weeks. We waited until she was 6 months and still continued to be surprised and pleased. We were going to wait longer but..... We needed more support from our 4 legged friends!
     
  3. Jan 9, 2017
    dejavoodoo114

    dejavoodoo114 Loving the herd life

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    After all this time.... I still haven't figured out how to post pictures in the thread... I searched it and went to help... This is the only online site I spend much time on and I still don't know.:idunno Usually, someone else has already said what I would have so I don't bother to post much.
     
  4. Jan 9, 2017
    babsbag

    babsbag Herd Master

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    Isn't a working LGD beautiful to watch, but then so are other working dogs, like herders. But I love my LGDs, they always amaze me. I am sure that Kimber will love the help.

    As far as pictures..When you are making a post choose "upload a file" from the bottom and browse to the file on your computer. Select the file you want and then select 'open' from the bottom. BYH then uploads the file and you choose thumbnail or full view, either will work and after you post a few you will see the difference; I always use 'full view' That is one way. Or you can choose the little "picture" next to the smiley face in the menu at the top of the post and enter the URL. You would use this if you use Photobucket or something similar. Does that help?

    I think that everyone has a unique perspective on things so we always like to read what other people have to say, besides, that is how we get to know each other. :)
     
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  5. Jan 10, 2017
    dejavoodoo114

    dejavoodoo114 Loving the herd life

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    @babsbag, how did I miss that!? It is a good thing vets are not required to be up to date on internet stuff or they would never accept me to vet school no matter how good my grades and GRE! Going back to school has been a huge learning curve for me. Not in the science (I had already done so much research they are just filling in the details for now) but in real life... I may have received a B in physics if some kids had not taken pity on me and told me about "group chat"! I just added some photos of Wesson to that thread and will add some of Kimber here... It worked!!!

    20160909_214232.jpg
    Kimber's first day, DH and son's hands. 20160910_132106.jpg
    Second day, she grew up with piglets so they were fast friends!


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    Kimber learning that the livestock comes first. Wesson never did learn that... This is one of a handful of selfies I took that I may soon delete. But this lesson was very important to us.

    20161014_092945.jpg
    Kimber and our buck at the vet. She needed shots and he was getting a BSE. She wouldn't leave him even to go to the bathroom because he kept crying. I ended up having to take both of them out and then she was SO relieved to (ahem) be relieved!

    20161105_151056.jpg
    Our pig Moo Shu. Reinforcing that livestock comes first.

    20161126_180921.jpg
    Kimber and Smith (the useless one) on the right. Sitting and waiting for treats. Wesson can't really "sit" anymore so we just give him treats on the sly...

    20161212_122311.jpg
    Kimber learning to stay... Even though she REALLY wanted treats! So did the goats for that matter. Wesson was actually hanging back for a bit on this day. Iris (the nubian) also likes treats but she just got pats... The session was great until the rest of the goats realized there were goodies on the porch! This was when we were trying to keep Wesson from moving around too much and we had everyone in the back. That could only last so long.
     
  6. Jan 10, 2017
    Latestarter

    Latestarter Novice; "Practicing" Animal Husbandry Moderator

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    Wow, thanks for all the pics. Kimber looks like a real sweetheart! :love:celebrate
     
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  7. Jan 10, 2017
    dejavoodoo114

    dejavoodoo114 Loving the herd life

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    Thanks! She really is a sweet heart!
     
  8. Jan 10, 2017
    babsbag

    babsbag Herd Master

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    What a beautiful dog Kimber is and LOOK AT THOSE FEET. :ep:ep:ep

    I am so glad that she is being a good girl, it warms my heart to hear good stories about LGDs.
     
  9. Jan 10, 2017
    BrendaMNgri

    BrendaMNgri Ridin' The Range

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    Babsbag :thumbsup is asking good questions….really good 'musings' on her part - regardless of any breed. Having said that…..

    Boz Shepherd - ?? It would be unfair to the forum if I didn't openly say that I (yes, I) was one of the first people to bring the 'breed' here to this country - hmmm where's that cute icon of the guy hiding under a chair?
    :hide "Shoot low, she's riding a Shetland!"
    LOL

    OK and let me repeat this, I am not - NOT - going to embarrass you or condemn you over your choice. I made that choice years ago, too. So shoot me too! :frow

    But I am also too honest, to sit here and cover up my experience with this so called 'breed', in terms of your original question about pup choosing. So bear with me and let me say what I need to say.

    One of my Boz imports is listed on my website on my "In Memoriam" page - she was put down due to extreme elbow displaysia - she had the worst kind there is. Had to have her put down - was not about to breed her and spread that around. Another one we brought over died shortly after coming from Turkey, distemper. Oh and right now with what is going down in Turkey in terms of major unrest, it is only through very black market off grid illegal channels that anyone can bring these dogs over at high risk. I should know. Middlemen, bribes, etc. We used a guy in NJ, a Turk working in a restaurant, he was the 'fixer' for our imports and bought off Turkish border patrols and we used a gal to get them to the airport labeled as "German Shepherds" it was better than a movie - heck, it was a movie :pop Many people involved in this 'breed', got on (and are still on) the radar of US law enforcement (just advising you) who got involved in these dogs for possible ties to dog fighting and some ARE dog fighters. Just a heads up because that is the dog's specialty and LE was all over this like flies on poop - Customs was investigating one of the guys still involved in this.

    Also, not to be blunt, but as an ethical breeder I would be remiss if I didn't say yes the breed is being now puppy milled in the USA big time - was designed and 'invented' by a huge dog fighter in Turkey. One of the biggest. WTH why not name him - Akin Tulubas, and I bought from him. With ties, through his incarcerated brother, to a terrorist cult, and was on the lam for ditching Army service for some time in Turkey - when he came to Las Vegas to meet with his dog fighting cronies he had LE on his tail like crazy. His brother is in the pen for stabbing their dad to death. Really wonderful crowd. Bet the people you are buying from don't even know that…!!! FYI I got this info from - LE connections.

    Again, not dissing you. Please don't hate me LOL….I did this too - but not going to sugar coat this either. Because it all relates ultimately to your choice of puppies/breed etc. I want to see you succeed not fail.

    Many people don't know the Boz 'breed', but give you an idea how bad the Boz is thought of by most legit breeders and breed groups - here is the Kangal Club of America's disclaimer about the 'breed' - and I'll just leave it at that - KDCA BOZ DOG STATEMENT Oh and yes they name Akin Tulubas in this.

    I take it there was a reason you didn't try the Kangal breed (I used to own and raise them as well). Intense breed, also many inferior specimens being put out in USA by backyard puppy millers but wow, the good ones rock!:love

    A pup can get pretty screwed up by 8 weeks if raised in wrong manner. OK if they are not properly raised, aren't in good health with good de-worming schedule, good food, vaccinations, good livestock time - they can really be messed up big time…I'm being generous. ANY BREED or cross can.

    OK having said this….back to your question about pup choice - this pup is not being raised around livestock, and comes from the background it does. High risk? Oh yeah you bet. Can you salvage? Well probably yes, if you are a handy person with experience - and then, maybe not….. Again - not criticizing you - been here, done this, years before you probably knew the 'breed' was around - just saying. "Musing" much as Babs is. The other issue I had with my female and she was a beauty, was pack issues of - guess what? - aggression and fighting. You could see it developing by the day. What I didn't need is a take down between a fast growing huge (my female Ekin was probably twice the size of this pup you have at same age) Boz and a 250 pd Spanish Mastiff. :barnie And you indicate there has been pack dynamic issues already and one of your dogs getting 'beat up'? Hmmm. Tread carefully is all I can say. REALLY carefully.

    In short - you've already committed to this 'breed' so really, you have to accept the risk here, I think, and move on as you can, carefully. I think what I said in my first post is still very applicable to your pup choice.

    But here is where you need to be honest with yourself. Breeder support, will there be any? Other than steak and squash (LOL!) will she be a solid source to lean on for advice when issues arise or will she just say "Gee…good question….I dunno….". Food for thought. Because this breed is beautiful - the good ones are anyhow - but also because of the genetics - potential bomb and a handful.

    I have not figured out how to post photos here and the one I have of the guy's arm half chewed off by a Boz in NY would probably be too graphic anyway. I guess my last question to you would be are there other "Boz breeders" who DO raise pups in livestock you can go to instead of this one who sounds like someone raising them to make money as a cash crop? Do they have better or more impressive track records and offer health guarantees, replacement guarantees and breeder support? This is where I say, how much do you have to have this particular pup to where you toss caution to the wind and buy it from them over a more reliable or reputable Boz breeder? Just askin'….don't hate me. Again, was doing this before you were so mods, bear with my blunt delivery and questions but I hate to see people get ripped off. I could write a book on that topic, God knows I got ripped off with the Boz and lessons learned the hard way.

    :(:(:(:barnie:he:he:he:he:he:old:old:old:old Oh yeah the old man icon he's the one I need!!! LOL :old:old:old:old:old:old
     
  10. Jan 10, 2017
    Goat Whisperer

    Goat Whisperer True BYH Addict

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    :pop

    @dajavoodoo114
    Pretty dog :love
    Looks like she's shaping up into a great LGD!
     
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