Could 24/7 turnout be causing weight loss?

[dianneS]

My mare (20 years old this year) has been on almost 24/7 turnout for over a year now. I only bring the horses in when the weather is really bad, otherwise they are out round the clock only coming in for breakfast and dinner and then going right back out to the pasture. They get blankets when needed too.

My mare has been gradually losing a small amount of weight since I started this practice. She's always been an easy keeper, but I did increase her feed this winter and put her on a senior pellet and BOSS. She still seems to be losing or at least not gaining at all. She has 24/7 access to hay in winter and good grass in summer. She used to be on oats and BOSS and did well on that in winter. So I switched her back to that plus I've added in some alfalfa pellets and she gets Dynamite vitamin supplements to round out her nutritional requirements. I've also started bringing her back indoors at night and the equine dentist will be coming soon to do her teeth.

I'm just wondering if perhaps she could be burning too many calories by being turned out 24/7? She is an OTTB and she likes her stall and her deep sawdust bedding. She does lay down at night in her stall. I've noticed that she rarely lays down in the pasture and I'm sure she never lays down at night. I'm thinking that maybe being out overnight might be too stressful for her?

I began this practice because its supposed to be healthier for horses, but I'm starting to re-think that philosophy in the instance of my mare. On the other hand, I have a skinny, underweight gelding who is continuing to gain weight on 24/7 turnout and the same feed as my mare (just 1/2 pound more because he's bigger).

What do you think?

 

[currycomb1]

other questions to ask: how many horses is she pastured with? is it possible she really does not have access to the hay?someone is bullying her away from it? maybe too stressful for her. try letting her stay in the stall all night. will be interesting what the dentist finds. that may be the problem. be sure he really checks the very back teeth for points. hard to see way back in there, so really be sure. adding rice bran will add fat to her diet also.(slick coat is another benefit). if all else fails, alfalfa cubes and beet pulp, soaked in water for a few hours and then fed as a mash. goats and horses love it

 

[secuono]

Check her teeth, they may need floating. Or have her checked for worms/parasites/ulcers.

 

[dianneS]

She's got no worms or ulcers. She's in the pasture with two other horses (one is a mini) and she is the dominant horse in the herd anyway.

 

[Karma]

Unless she is running the fence line or running a lot I highly doubt the exercise from turnout is the reason for the weight loss, the weather however while being turned out could effect her weight though as horses burn an awful lot of calories trying to stay warm. How is your weather, do they have a windbreak? If they do not you might consider lightly blanketing her to give some added protection from the wind stripping her warmth or bringing her in for the night.

Obviously if she is loosing weight she is either not making use of the calories she is receiving or she is not getting enough calories to begin with and here is where I would start. Others make a good point with the teeth. You can't see problems just looking in, so they need to reach in and feel back there. Some older horses seem to need more frequent floating than others, so if she was just done last year I still would have someone look before you start pouring more calories in her.

 

[goodhors]

I am going to say the weather is tougher this year than the last couple winters. More
intense cold, for longer times. I would believe she also has some tooth issues if you
don't have her done yearly. She is on the edge of maintaining herself, not losing, but
not gaining either. The kind of hay you feed could be less full of calories than what
was fed other years. She may need a different ration of grain that has calories she
can use more efficiently. However just throwing her more grain, without doing her teeth,
could be a waste of money if she can't chew them for easy digestion.

You may want to read up on horse nutrition, learn the feed values of the various things we
give them to eat. Oats, even crimped or rolled, are a much lower feed value than corn. Oats
are good for the rough husks that rub the digestive system all the way thru, stimulating it.
However a horse only gets about 10% of a food value from oats, though they are a historic
horse feed over many years. Cracked or rolled corn, on the other hand gives horse a LOT
of food value for the amount fed. Whole kernel of corn mostly goes right thru a horse, they
don't get much food value from whole kernels because horse can't chew them well enough to
digest well. Using the cracked or rolled corn, particles of whole kernels, the horse CAN digest
these well, gets about 90% of the food value from it. This means you can feed a lot LESS of
the cracked or rolled corn to the horse, and get the same feed impact as 9 times that amount of
whole oats. The wet beet pulp and wet hay cubes both give horses a good feed value, easily
eaten and digested, for the horse who is older or having problems keeping their weight on.

I feed a mix of plain cracked corn and whole oats, with soybean meal mixed in. No molasses
which horses don't need. They also get wet beet pulp, but not in great quantities, they don't
need it like a horse with poor or no teeth would. Sugar is hard on old horses, which is what
many of the Senior pellet mixes contain. They blimp up on sugar calories, not real food. I have
tried a number of the additives on our older horse, with no real results visible. We did the Rice
Bran last year, could not tell any difference. Did the corn oil on everyone, until THAT went out of sight in cost,
and they were shiny, but not any shinier than without it. Hair WAS greasy though, dirt stuck
to it, so we had to wash them more often. They were getting 1/4 cup oil each, once a day. They
wouldn't eat any more than that, walked away from grain and wet beet pulp.

I am not a fan of blankets, unless a horse is shivering. The blanket weights the hair down,
so horse has no heat adjustment with being able to "foof" the hair up and be plushy in the
cold temps. Most days and nights, would require you to be changing her blanket set-up
a couple times a day, going from 0* to the 20+* of the last couple days. She could
overheat in blankets needed for the 0*, if you don't remove or change them when it
reaches 25*.

And while 24 hour turnout is easier on YOU, the horse could need the shelter of her bedded
stall, being able to lay down each night on her tired legs. A lot of folks say how good
full-time turnout is, but I see a lot of horses who need more care than they get. Tossing
a blanket on him for cold days, doesn't always do it for a horse. And as mentioned, might
actually make him colder than if left uncovered. And many folks NEVER touch the blanket
once it goes on, don't groom horses or check body condtion under that blanket. They find
some NASTY surprises when they finally decide to take the blanket off. Rub marks turned
into gaping wounds. Ribs sticking out. So unless a person is willing to daily blanket duty,
changing, removal to groom, check animal over, I would not advise using a winter blanket.
Putting one on for a short time, warming up a shivering animal, covering one who got rain
soaked, then temps dropped, is fine. Then groom the dry horse to fluffy again, hang the blanket
up until needed again.

Get the tooth person out and learn what they see. You LOOK in there too, both sides, see what they
see, to know if she needs attention in the future. Then have them "fix her up" with a new
chewing surface, level front teeth for good grazing. Do NOT let them over-fix to flat, with power
tools. No putting enamel back on, and an old horse needs all they have left!

 

[dianneS]

Great advice everyone, thank you!

I do daily blanketing only when necessary and yes, some times I do remove/replace blankets several times a day when the weather fluctuates a lot.

We are having a harder winter this year than last. Last year was her first winter on almost 24/7 turnout and last winter was warm and wet and sloppy. It was horrible. She was also pastured with a gelding pony last winter whom she had a terrible crush on. She had never shown any signs of being in heat prior to his arrival. Once she laid eyes on him, she was flirting non-stop for several months! She was winking at him and following him around, flaunting herself in his face. He even tried to "service" her a few times, but didn't know what he was doing (he's a gelding!) and he was too short. That just frustrated the old girl.

I thought that perhaps her pre-occupation with the pony in addition to the full-time turnout might be contributing to her weight loss since those were the major changes that took place when the weight started to drop. The pony left here in September, before it got cold, but she hasn't put the weight back on? She really didn't put much weight on during the summer when she was grazing 24/7.

Her front teeth are really worn down from cribbing, but it doesn't seem to prevent her from being able to graze and eat hay. She takes in just as much as the other horses.

I'm bringing her in nightly now and I've started to add a little corn oil to her diet. I'm giving her probiotics too and I have a call in to the equine dentist. I'm eager for him to get out here and see what he says. He's great, uses no power tools and no sedation.

 

[sawfish99]

Reading your post, teeth were the first thing that jumped out at me. Are you able to quantify the weight loss? Do you have pictures of body condition in the fall to now or actual weight tape measurements? It is natural for horses to lose some weight through the winter. If you are increasing grains, I would shift away from the senior feeds. As goodhors pointed out, the sugars are bad for the horses. High sugar content will cause problems in the hooves.

I find it interesting that she lays down in a stall, but not outside. That would indicate she doesn't feel safe outside, and probably doesn't trust the rest of the herd to be watchful for threats while she rests. As you noted, this is a change later in her life. The stress could be a factor in her weight loss.

 

[dianneS]

I have taken her off of the senior feed. I was really surprised that she didn't gain any weight on it as I had expected, now it makes sense why not. I've got her back on the same regimen that she did best on.

I do think she is too anxious and stressed outside as I don't see her lay down/sleep or relax too much in the pasture. If she does lay down, its during the day and only briefly. She always lays down in her stall. Some mornings I get to the barn before she is "up"! She rises and stretches, does her horsie yoga and she's all ready for breakfast.

Her weight loss has been ever so slight, so I'm guessing its teeth and/or the stress of being outside during cold nights. I hope she starts to gain soon. I hope that dentist calls me back soon too... :/

I did have my mare out for a short ride today, and she is still just as awesome as ever so I've got to keep her in good shape!

 

[dianneS]

Well the equine dentist was here. He said that her teeth were really over-grown and sharp on the sides. However the chewing surfaces of her teeth were worn pretty evenly. She did have one slightly loose tooth on the right side, and she seemed more uncomfortable when he worked on the right side.

She's still got all of her teeth and the loose one is not ready to fall out any time soon. The dentist did say that her teeth could have contributed to her weight loss. I guess all I can do now is wait and see if she starts gaining?