Crash course: LGDs

DustyBoot

Loving the herd life
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
148
Reaction score
178
Points
113
Location
Central Texas
Next month we will be acquiring three Kiko-Boer does and two GP/Anatolian mix guardian dogs. The dogs are 4.5 years old, brother and sister, spayed and neutered, been with goats their whole lives and -- according to the seller -- doing a great job. She's selling out so they'll be out of a job, and we figured a pair of pre-trained LGDs at a very reasonable price was not something to pass up. These will be our first goats. Our previous experience consists of having cows, horses and chickens when I was a teenager. Lots of reading, research, and talking to people, of course, but no experience yet. I've tried to learn what I can, but I'm hoping y'all can help me figure out what I don't know that I don't know.

The dogs will stay with the goats, of course. Goats will have a secure night pen with a shelter, and during the day they'll go out on pasture in temporary paddocks made with movable electric fencing. Dogs are currently UTD on shots and heartworm. We do have ticks out here, so I was thinking maybe Serestro collars would be a good idea. I need to figure out an affordable but decent food, and how much they should get. And I'll keep up with heartworm pills and shots. I'm told they're good with children, and used to the current owner's pet dog. We'll take those introductions slowly and keep an eye on things. Not sure they've been exposed to poultry, and we don't have any yet, but when we do we plan to do the temporary electric paddock thing with them too, so they should be inside the dogs' perimeter but the dogs shouldn't have immediate access to them.

I'm not sure how hard it will be for the dogs to adjust to the move. The goats we're getting are their goats, so that may help, but the owner also has sheep and we won't be taking those so it will be a smaller herd than they're used to. I suspect our property is smaller, too.
 

Baymule

Herd Master
Joined
Aug 22, 2010
Messages
32,973
Reaction score
97,866
Points
873
Location
East Texas
Number one, read this forum. There is tons of info here that will help you. LGD's are dogs of a different normal than other dogs. They are fabulous animals and you are so fortunate to be able to acquire these two, already trained. Kudos to you for wanting to learn more about them. As you read past posts, it may raise questions that you haven't thought about.

These are independent thinkers and they know their job. You are about to fall madly in love with them and all their quirks.
 

babsbag

Herd Master
Joined
May 10, 2010
Messages
7,886
Reaction score
9,317
Points
593
Location
Anderson, CA
Poultry can be tough but it can be done. It is good that you will have the dogs without poultry for awhile, it will give them a chance to settle in and get used to a new routine and learn to trust you without you having to correct them about poultry. Depending on how well they know "leave it" or "no" will tell you how to introduce them to poultry when the time comes. You might need to have them on a lead. Be prepared for some accidents as chickens are the ultimate squeaky toy but these dogs are older so they might not want to play as much. :fl Once you get them used to poultry you may find that when you bring in new birds the dogs have to be introduced to accept them. I would take my new chickens and put them in a 6x6 chain link kennel inside the goat pen for a few days. The dogs would then accept them as part of the flock/herd.

You are fortunate to find a pair of LGDs and a herd at the same time, sounds like a perfect deal.
 

DustyBoot

Loving the herd life
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
148
Reaction score
178
Points
113
Location
Central Texas
I'm paging slowly back through the archives trying to pick up everything I can. Love having it all here to read through!

One thing I've been wondering -- how will things work with the small daytime paddock? Do we put both dogs inside the electric fence even though it confines them from wandering the rest of the property? Or is there a way to set things up so they can go in and out but the goats can't? Eventually I'm hoping they'll guard the whole property since we'll have poultry penned out too.

I'm thrilled to have found these two, and so early on. I knew I wasn't up for starting with puppies, and I thought maybe if we were patient and lucky we'd find what we needed. Eventually I'm sure we'll look for a puppy "apprentice" to start learning the ropes for when they retire.

I don't have previous experience with the breeds, but I always admire a dog that knows its job. I've repeatedly assured my husband that these will not be my "pets," although we'll take good care of them and I'm told they'll appreciate a little human interaction that doesn't interfere with their work.
 

Baymule

Herd Master
Joined
Aug 22, 2010
Messages
32,973
Reaction score
97,866
Points
873
Location
East Texas
If a dog can go through, so can a goat or sheep. These dogs belong with their goats. I believe they would be upset and stressed if you put them on the outside of the enclosure.

It is perfectly ok to love on the dogs.

IMG_1739.JPG
 

DustyBoot

Loving the herd life
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
148
Reaction score
178
Points
113
Location
Central Texas
Well then, we'll plan on them staying in close with the goats and figure things out with poultry when we get there. Love the photo!
 

Baymule

Herd Master
Joined
Aug 22, 2010
Messages
32,973
Reaction score
97,866
Points
873
Location
East Texas
My dogs love children and would lay down their lives for them.
 

DustyBoot

Loving the herd life
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
148
Reaction score
178
Points
113
Location
Central Texas
First question from reading archives: I see mention that it's best to teach them not to eat the placantas during kidding time. The seller proudly informed me that they stay right with the does and eat the placentas. How big a deal is this? Should I just let it go or try to retrain? The does we're getting are not bred so there won't be kids for at least six months (I'm planning on a month of quarantine, then depending on their condition and other factors I may try to find a buck we can use). So we'll have time to build rapport with the dogs before it might be an issue... but I don't know how they'll take it if I'm interfering with something they perceive as their job.
 

babsbag

Herd Master
Joined
May 10, 2010
Messages
7,886
Reaction score
9,317
Points
593
Location
Anderson, CA
It is ok if they eat the placentas as long as they don't pull them out of the doe, that is the main reason for teaching them to not eat it. Just watch the dogs when the time comes.

I have hot wire on all of my fences, one strand top and middle. My dogs go over gates to get from field to field, the goats do not. Probably a bad habit but if I don't want them to go over a particular gate I put a strand of hot wire across it and the dogs know that it is off limits. Also, search Google for jump gates. I haven't used in but I have been thinking about it as I have one dog that won't go over the gates at all and I would like her to have access to other places.

I love on all of my dogs, I wouldn't have it any other way and you never know when they might need to be in the house. They are smart, they know their jobs but mine love to see me and get a good hug and belly rub and they are still happy to stay with the goats.
 

DustyBoot

Loving the herd life
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
148
Reaction score
178
Points
113
Location
Central Texas
Ahh, that makes sense. Given that these are Kiko-Boer does who I understand have been largely expected to fend for themselves I'm not going to be surprised if they kid in the pasture when I'm not looking. But I'll be watching as best I can.

Googling jump gates turns up a lot of science-fiction, but I did find the right kind eventually. :) We may have to put one of those in the couple of cross fences we'll have so that the dogs can get around as needed.

Next question: we have a pet Border Collie. She lives in the house with us, and she's not outside by herself, but we do talk her for off-leash walks around the property. I intend to take measures to ensure she doesn't bother goats, but what else might I be able to do to ensure we don't have avoidable problems between her and the two LGDs? She's energetic, friendly, playful, 2 years old and 30-35 lbs. My experience so far is that she does well with other dogs, taking correction well, and not being overly aggressive herself. I wouldn't generally worry about her with other dogs, and I feel like I'd know how to proceed with introductions, but this is a different dynamic with two large dogs whose job is to guard goats against predators including other dogs.
 
Top