does anyone take the kits from the doe??

[xotatiannaxo]

i was reading that some people do that. and i was wondering if anyone on here did it and how does it work? is that safe? does the doe ever reject the kits after wards? i just SOOOO tired of seeing dead babbies.... we have had three litters who all died, mainly b.c the moms are dumb and sit on them or .... chew them up? not sure, or had them on the wire instead of the nesting box... so should i do this untill they learn how to be good moms? i just want to do things right and have live litters...

 

[rabbitman]

If the mother rabbit is very ill, dead, or exhibiting aggression towards her babies, you may have to remove them and feed them without her help. Before you take on this formidable task, consider the following:

Did the babies get any mother's milk? If not, you'll have to provide the babies with a special, immunoglobin-rich substance called colostrum. For the first few days of lactation, a mother mammal produces colostrum, which contains antibodies that help destroy foreign bacteria. Without a colostrum "starter", the babies have a lower chance of survival.
If the babies really are orphans or have been abandoned by their mother, here's a protocol that's been successful for us.

1. Keep the babies in a warm (about 75o - 78o Farenheit), quiet place in a nest similar to the one described above. (Bunny fur is the best lining, but clean cotton wadding will do as a substitute. Just be sure the babies do not get tangled in it.) DO NOT use an electric heating pad. Two or more babies usually are able to snuggle and keep each other warm if they have a good, padded nest. If there's only one baby, a warm water bottle wrapped in a soft towel can provide an excellent artificial heat source, but be sure the baby can crawl away from the bottle if it feels too warm.

2. The nest box should be at ground level, in a room where small children and pets are not allowed (at least until the babies are eating solid food and out of the nest). For the first few days, keep the room relatively dimly lit and quiet.

Feeding the Babies
Formula and feeding supplies
You will need:
plastic sterilizing steam bag (available at most pharmacies, these are used by women to disinfect breast pumps and other nursing materials)
very small nursing nipples
There are many different types, and unfortunately few pet supply stores carry the smallest nipples that are best for baby rabbits. If your local pet supply store doesn't carry nipples suitable for baby squirrels and rabbits, then the ones for kittens are the next best thing.
nursing bottle or syringes
The type of bottle or syringe you buy will depend on the nipples available in your store. They usually are paired. A variety of feeding supplies are available online from The Squirrel Store. Order them while you use the kitten supplies locally available, and you'll have better nipples and syringes in a few days.
Formula recipe
fresh, whole goat milk - 1/2 cup
KMR (Kitten Milk Replacer by PetAg) - 1/2 cup
lyophilized (freeze dried) colostrum - contents of 10 capsules, or 1-1.5 Tablespoons
This is available at most high-quality health food stores, either in bulk powder form, or in capsules. It's expensive, but will give the babies their best head start.
heavy cream - 3 cc (a cc is the same as one ml, or milliliter), equal to about 1/2 teaspoon

Mix ingredients together in a lidded container, and shake very well until colostrum is dissolved. It's best to mix this a few hours in advance so that the colostrum has time to soften and suspend easily.
Heat the formula to about 105o Farenheit (you can gauge this with a common, quick-read plastic rectal thermometer (unused, or fully sterilized!) from any pharmacy.) and keep it warm in a water bath while you feed the babies. They are generally more eager to accept warm formula.


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Feeding Procedure
The most important thing to avoid is aspiration (inhalation) of formula by the babies. The smallest drop of formula in the lungs can cause fatal pneumonia within a few hours.

1. Steam disinfect all syringes, bottles, and nipples as per instructions on the disinfecting bag.
2. Sit or lie on the floor to feed the bunnies, using a towel as a lap cushion for the baby being fed. Baby rabbits are wiggly, and unpredictable. They jump suddenly and unexpectedly, and you must be on the floor so that they don't hurl themselves off a chair or table and injure themselves. A drop of only one or two feet can be fatal, especially if the baby has a stomach full of milk.

3. Hold the baby horizontal in one hand, and the bottle/syringe in the other. If you wrap the bottle in a washcloth or cotton pad, allowing a fold to drape over your hand with the nipple protruding, the baby will be able to "paddle" with his front feet, as he would his own mother's breast.

4. Babies often resist feeding at first, and you must overcome the temptation to force feed. If the baby spits out the nipple, then simply wet the baby's lips with a drop of warm formula so he'll lick it off. Once he's swallowed that, repeat the procedure over and over. Be persistent and gentle. If you can keep him hydrated and fed--even against his will--for a few feedings, more often than not, the baby will start to lap or sip at the drops you provide, though he may not do this on the first feeding. (If you're lucky, the baby will quickly learn the Turbo Sucktm : this can empty 15 cc's of formula in as little as 9 seconds!)
5. DO NOT SQUEEZE TOO MUCH FORMULA INTO THE BABY'S MOUTH! It's better to err on the side of caution than to have the baby inhale milk!

6. Baby rabbits may lose the suckling reflex in only a day or two. If the baby grabs the nipple and begins suckling, allow him to do so without adding any pressure yourself. DO NOT squeeze the nursing bottle or put pressure on the syringe plunger. The baby should be able to suckle with enough strength to empty the bottle or syringe (as long as the plunger is adequately lubricated in advance with a bit of pediatric simethicone suspension) without any help from you. If you provide extra force, the baby may accidentally aspirate formula that's coming in too fast!

7. If the babies do not suckle, it's not a major problem. Most will learn to lap/sip from the tip of the nipple, and this is actually safer, in terms of reducing the risk of aspiration. Try to hold the nipple sideways or downpointed, relative to the mouth, to further reduce the risk of aspiration.

8. IN CASE OF ACCIDENTAL ASPIRATION. We hope this doesn't happen, but if the baby does aspirate formula, it can completely block the airway and cause the baby to pass out. This does not have to be a death sentence, but the following "Bunny Heimlich" maneuver is the only hope of saving the little one. And it's scary.

hold the baby very firmly between your palms, one on each side of the rabbit
stabilizing the back and neck firmly so they do not move at all, raise the baby above your head, so his nose is pointing skywards.
with a firm, downward motion (not too fast!), swing the baby downwards towards your feet, (being very careful not to come too close to the floor!)
repeat the procedure two or three times, as necessary. The weight of the baby's internal organs pressing against the diaphragm when you swing downwards ususally provides enough pressure to expel air from the lungs, as well as the drop of milk blocking the airway.
Once you feel the baby begin to move, STOP THE MANEUVER IMMEDIATELY.
Consult with your veterinarian about whether or not to place the baby on prophylactic antibiotics to prevent aspiration pneumonia.
9. Until they open their eyes (at about the age of 10-12 days), handle the babies as little as possible when you're not feeding/grooming

I found this on a website called http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/orphan.html

 

[DianeS]

Bunnylady, another poster here, removes the nestbox containing the kits and keeps it in the house. Then every day she returns the nestbox to the mom so she can nurse the kits for a few minutes.

The thing is, removing them after a successful birth doesn't prevent things like the doe having them on the wire. You do have to have them already alive before you can remove them. And with mom or not, they don't have much chance if they've been chewed already or not warmed up properly, etc. So if the damage is being done between birth and you finding them the first time, then removing them isn't likely to help anything.

Dead litters are lousy.

 

[hoodat]

Bunnylady, another poster here, removes the nestbox containing the kits and keeps it in the house. Then every day she returns the nestbox to the mom so she can nurse the kits for a few minutes.

The thing is, removing them after a successful birth doesn't prevent things like the doe having them on the wire. You do have to have them already alive before you can remove them. And with mom or not, they don't have much chance if they've been chewed already or not warmed up properly, etc. So if the damage is being done between birth and you finding them the first time, then removing them isn't likely to help anything.

Dead litters are lousy.

Moving the entire nest box instead of the individual kits sounds like a good idea. It disturbs things much less. Rabbits don't spend a lot of time nursing. Their milk is so high in fats that a couple minutes per day is all the nursing the kits need.
Spending time with does keeping them tame and teaching them to accept you is also a good idea. The more friendly your does are with you the less they will resent your "interference".

 

[xotatiannaxo]

Bunnylady, another poster here, removes the nestbox containing the kits and keeps it in the house. Then every day she returns the nestbox to the mom so she can nurse the kits for a few minutes.

The thing is, removing them after a successful birth doesn't prevent things like the doe having them on the wire. You do have to have them already alive before you can remove them. And with mom or not, they don't have much chance if they've been chewed already or not warmed up properly, etc. So if the damage is being done between birth and you finding them the first time, then removing them isn't likely to help anything.

Dead litters are lousy.

Moving the entire nest box instead of the individual kits sounds like a good idea. It disturbs things much less. Rabbits don't spend a lot of time nursing. Their milk is so high in fats that a couple minutes per day is all the nursing the kits need.
Spending time with does keeping them tame and teaching them to accept you is also a good idea. The more friendly your does are with you the less they will resent your "interference".

thank you both! and im sorry i was SUPER clear on the question, i did mean returning them to her so she could nurse!

i dont want to take them from her if it seems shes doing a good job. but i dont want them to die from cold or the mom end up killing them. so im not sure what to do... i guess after they come judge the mom and her mother skills... and we do mess with them a lot. ive got two kids who want to be in there all day petting them. so they are pretty friendly, expect for the buck who is kind of a jerk.... Thank you guys so much! im sorry for the million questions! this was going to be my husbands thing but i love the rabbits! and i felt like he was just throwing them some feed and hoping for the best.... so.... i got involded! wrote EVERYTHING down, and hopefully we will figure this out

 

[tortoise]

I have kits due the end of this week. I'm going to kitnap these because it is so cold. I hope I get it right so I don't lose this litter.

 

[chinbunny1]

I take the kits to the doe twice a day. I put a little feed, grain, r calf manna in the nest, behind the babies to encourage the doe to feed them. It won't prevent them from being born on the wire. It will prevent the doe from eating the bedding, and doing dumb things to the kits to kill them.

 

[xotatiannaxo]

I take the kits to the doe twice a day. I put a little feed, grain, r calf manna in the nest, behind the babies to encourage the doe to feed them. It won't prevent them from being born on the wire. It will prevent the doe from eating the bedding, and doing dumb things to the kits to kill them.

THANK YOU! i will deff do that! my does all seem really dumb when it comes to their kits! i hope it works and we dont lose any more!

 

[chinbunny1]

I take the kits to the doe twice a day. I put a little feed, grain, r calf manna in the nest, behind the babies to encourage the doe to feed them. It won't prevent them from being born on the wire. It will prevent the doe from eating the bedding, and doing dumb things to the kits to kill them.

THANK YOU! i will deff do that! my does all seem really dumb when it comes to their kits! i hope it works and we dont lose any more!

Your welcome. rabbits do dumb things to their babies. I take them out twice a day till they are between ten-15 days old. My next boxes have a low front on them. So I put a hand towel over the lower part to prevent them from climbing out to go explore. I take them out once early in the morning, and once at night.

I have had does kicke them out of thebox, eat all the bedding, pee on them, or the babies would pee all over themselves, then they'd freeze and die. Bringing them inside solved those problems.

 

[mnmommy]

when the temps are really cold I remove the kits and bring them in. I take the whole box in and bring them out to mom to nurse once a day. I never have had an issue with moms getting mad or babies not getting fed.