Dog took off half my goats ear.... help!

[Hillsvale]

It's rare to find one that cant be "fixed", even one that grew up hunting like this one has. It's VERY intensive though, and you'd need to do what I call the umbilical method where the dog is physically attached to you by a lead that gets longer and longer as he progresses, or be restrained in a small area when not attached to you. I've used this method on many problem dogs, both fearful and aggressive. I've even used it to "re-program" retired police dogs. Its intensive, but it works.

Only you can decided the "right" thing, either working with him and keeping him, or re-homing with full disclosure or euthanasia. A good rescue may take him, if they have a foster home that can work with his habits. Honestly, if he was on my farm right now.......the right thing for me to do would be to euth him. I dont have the time it would take to educate him and "problem" dogs frequently end up abused when rehomed. Now, this time last year, I would have had the time to work with him and would have done so rather than put him down. Its so different for each person, from farm to farm, etc.

Granted, the dog is a predator, and he is acting on instinct, but the basis of this problem is that he hasnt been taught otherwise. He isnt behaving like just a dog or just a predator, he is behaving like a dog that has no education on these matters. When dealing with dogs, we all realize that it's their instinct to hunt, kill and protect. But its an often forgotten fact that it's also a very strong instinct to please the "master" or leader of the pack. Dogs that chase, hunt and kill, do so because their natural instinct tells them this is what the leader wants them to do, but with a little education that instinct can be molded. Dogs are intensely social animals, and the instinct to please their leader is a much stronger instinct. We just need to show them what they need to do to please us.

If you decide to keep him and work with him, feel free to come to me, if you wish, for some help. We can PM or talk publicly, your choice.

Talk publicly please... lots of posts with people who have issues, myself included and we have been rescuing dogs for years. Everyone can use the info.

 

[WhiteMountainsRanch]

It's rare to find one that cant be "fixed", even one that grew up hunting like this one has. It's VERY intensive though, and you'd need to do what I call the umbilical method where the dog is physically attached to you by a lead that gets longer and longer as he progresses, or be restrained in a small area when not attached to you. I've used this method on many problem dogs, both fearful and aggressive. I've even used it to "re-program" retired police dogs. Its intensive, but it works.

Only you can decided the "right" thing, either working with him and keeping him, or re-homing with full disclosure or euthanasia. A good rescue may take him, if they have a foster home that can work with his habits. Honestly, if he was on my farm right now.......the right thing for me to do would be to euth him. I dont have the time it would take to educate him and "problem" dogs frequently end up abused when rehomed. Now, this time last year, I would have had the time to work with him and would have done so rather than put him down. Its so different for each person, from farm to farm, etc.

Granted, the dog is a predator, and he is acting on instinct, but the basis of this problem is that he hasnt been taught otherwise. He isnt behaving like just a dog or just a predator, he is behaving like a dog that has no education on these matters. When dealing with dogs, we all realize that it's their instinct to hunt, kill and protect. But its an often forgotten fact that it's also a very strong instinct to please the "master" or leader of the pack. Dogs that chase, hunt and kill, do so because their natural instinct tells them this is what the leader wants them to do, but with a little education that instinct can be molded. Dogs are intensely social animals, and the instinct to please their leader is a much stronger instinct. We just need to show them what they need to do to please us.

If you decide to keep him and work with him, feel free to come to me, if you wish, for some help. We can PM or talk publicly, your choice.

I am definitely definitely interested in seeing what ideas you have for my boy. I am a pretty good dog owner myself having had a dogsled team for 10+ years with around 50 dogs, wolf hybrids, malamutes etc.

This one KNOWS when he shouldn't do something and then does it behind our backs...

 

[WhiteMountainsRanch]

Here is my baby girl last night. She had her last shot of banamine yesterday morning and seems to be doing just fine. Her ear is already healing together around the egdes! Just have to wait for the flesh in the middle to dry up before that part will heal.

 

[SheepGirl]

You can spray iodine on the ear to help it dry up faster which in turn will help it heal faster.

 

[redtailgal]

OK, since you posted this in the open forums, I'll assume that you want to discuss it here.

I DO NOT recommend this type of training on a "regular" dog or on a dog that has aggression towards people (unless you are very skilled in handling troubled dogs). This type of training is not for basic commands, it is to fix a problem.

The first thing you need to do is prepare yourself. You MUST have a spine and a hard heart thru this. You MUST be consistant. You MUST MUST MUST be consistant......otherwise you will be doing nothing more than torturing this dog. Be prepared to feel like a total hill, and to irritate a few people. When it gets hard and frustrating, remind yourself that this may well save this dogs life.

You will start out being overly strict and ease up as his intellect goes in the right direction. You will need a 4-5 foot lead and a small area to confine him (a crate or a small room). When he is in the crate or small room (or even a barn stall), he is to have NO attention. NONE. Don't even look at him, no matter how much he may carry on.

Now, put the leash on him and either hold the lead or attach it to your body. Where you go he goes. Take him everywhere you can, if he is a house dog, he goes to the bathroom with you.......

Make him be calm. If you are standing still, he must SIT. Ask him to sit, push his bottom down and say GOOD BOY when he does. Just say Good boy, dont pet dont give a treat, say good boy and leave it at that. When he stands back up correct him. LOUDLY. "NO! Sit!"

Dont set him up for failure....he will not be able to sit but for a few minutes at a time at first.

Use this loud correction everytime he does something you dont want him to do. Pulling, face licking, jumping, etc. Once you make something a NO, it must always be a NO without exception.

Stay away from the livestock with him at this point.

You'll keep him on this short leash like this for a couple days. NO off lead time at all. Right now, his whole world revolves around you. NO food in the crate.....he eats only when attached to you (same thing with drinking, it's hot, so be sure to offer water frequently).

Let's talk about being LOUD. WHen you say NO.......BOOM it out. Draw up your belly and let the word explode out. Make the word deep and loud. He should startle when you do it. If not, give the lead a quick sharp tug (not hard, just enough to get his attention) or goto walmart and buy a small airhorn (they are about 5$ in the sporting goods).

The loudness is important for this type of situation. He needs to understand that you are bigger, you are in charge, but his mind hasnt been attuned to paying attention to this yet. As he progresses you will get softer.


No affection until we reach the breaking point. The "breaking point"........this is when the dog has began to change the mentality that got him in trouble to begin with. Dogs reveal it in many ways, but we want a dog that is slightly afraid when he hears you go "NO" in the loud voice. He should cringe, the tail go down, and he should IMMEDIATELY look to you. This is your break thru moment.........as soon as he shows that little bit of fear and looks to you (he MUST LOOK TO YOU) then you should IMMEDIATELY lavish him with praise and affection. Stop what you are doing sit down on the floor and love the snot out of that dog.

The goal is to have him understand that he has every reason to fear you, but trust you enough to not be afraid. This will make YOU his "hero".......he is frightened and you "rescue" him with your praise. This will, in the long run, make him more stable mentally (for when we start him with the livestock), and at the same time form a bond to you that causes him to WANT to be part of your pack (right now, YOUR pack consists of you and your livestock, not him). Once he wants to be part of it, we'll teach him that the livestock is part of the pack and get him to understand that YOU will assign his place in that pack.

Be patient. Dont try to rush things. Be firm, consistant and sound as harsh as you possibly can when you say NO. Stand up tall and bellow it out. Make the sound startle him every time if you can.

Do be patient. Put him in the crate or room and ignore him when you get frustrated.......frustration renders you unable to teach and your student unable to learn. Frustration often leads to abuse. Dont show compassion either, until he has earned it. Compassion isnt all it's chalked up to be, esp when it enables a dog to continue down a distructive path.

I once trained a Doberman that took 6 days to reach the breaking point. If she hadn't reached it, she would have been euth'd because she had killed several other dogs. I was harsh,and rigid, and that dog HATED me until she reached her breaking point. When she "broke", she went down and showed me her belly, she broke so hard. In five minutes she was wagging her nub and licking my face. This previous dog killer now lives in a house with 5 corgi's and gets along wonderful. My lack of compassion was the most compassionate thing I could do for her, she would be dead if I had felt compassion for her before that point.

Your dog may not "break" as hard as this one did......just watch for the fear startle and the eyes on you. He should show a somewhat submissive stance, even if its just a small one, be prepared to praise praise praise. NO TREATS at this point........your love and attention should be reward enough right now.

Once you get to this point on the short lead, move up to a longer lead (10-15 feet), still not going around the livestock. He knows what you expect at this point, so YOU need to expect instant and unquestioning obedience from him. Resort to the loud "NO" correction EACH time you dont get INSTANT obedience. By instant obedience, I mean INSTANT. If you say "sit" his but should be on the ground before you draw another breath. There are no exceptions and no excuses......was he too distracted to sit? Tough. He needs to be paying attention to your voice always. Wash he distracted by a smell? Tough. He needs to be paying attention always.

Dont set him up for failure.....pay attention to his actions as well. If he is sniffing, say him name to gain his attention and then tell him to sit. (or what ever command you want to give him).

This next part is important. Do it carefully.

The final test before moving on to the next phase is to test (and teach) self control. Place some meat out or a favorite toy.....something he will REALLY want. But dont let him have it. When he goes for it........give the NO......and tell him to wait. Praise him (no treats) for backing off. Make him wait progressively longer each time and then tell him OK and let him have whatever it was.

THEN

Put something that he would really want but cannot have out within his reach. A sandwich, a large piece of meat.........honestly, I like a freshly killed carcass of some sort for this step, but maybe your not comfortable with that.

Anyway, when he goes for it give the NO.......be loud and harsh and praise when he backs off (if you completed the previous step he should know to back off). Tell him "LEAVE IT". He will wait and go after it again telling him to "LEAVE IT, repeat the whole thing over and over until he looses interest, then and ONLY then give him a treat. Eventually, he will learn that when he is told to "leave it" he must not even acknowledge the temptation. He should look away from the temptation and look to you immediately.

When he is at the end of a 15 foot lead, and will obey the command "leave it" without hesitation, he is ready for the next step.......still not going around the livestock, but obeying without question OFF the lead, and learning that "'leave it" means to leave it even when you are not in site. You'll have to set him up to fail on this part. Leave the temptation out within reach and then leave the room.....return shortly (within 2 minutes) to find it gone and then crate him and ignore him. The next time, try to leave it out where you can see him but he cannot see you and give that sharp correction while storming into the room.

Once you are confident in all this, esp with the "leave it' and "No" commands, let me know and we'll teach him about your livestock. PM me to get my attention if you need to. Ask me any questions during this process. You may run into some obstacles, but we'll work them out.

If you start this method, you must see it through in a consistent fashion. Dont make excuses for him. If you are too tired to do it right, put him in the crate and ignore him. No toys, no praise, no attention, and no treats except at breakthru moments, for now.

Now, I want you to understand something. This harshness IS NOT going to be a permanent thing, you will not be spending the rest of your life with this dog feeling like a hil and a mean drill sargeant. THe more strict, rigid and harsh you are, the quicker it will be over for him and you. Dogs are not robots and cannot be expected to live and thrive as one. Once he is ready, he can go back to a normal dog life. He will quickly realize that his life is much happier when he behaves in a certain way and will act accordingly.

He may go thru a slight depression just before he breaks. If so, you can ease up, but just slightly. Dont break down and let him see you being compassionate though. He must earn your protection, love and compassion. Once he earns those things from you, his whole world will revolve around you and he will be hell-bent to please you. THIS is our goal.

 

[GLENMAR]

I recently re-homed one of my champion Norfolk terriers because he attacked one of my Sebastopol geese.
He was a 7 yr old dog, so I knew he would not grow out of his prey drive. He is now living happily with one of my co-workers.
I will not have a dog around that I ca not trust. Sorry this happened to your little girl.

 

[ThreeBoysChicks]

I have to say that RTG gave you some really good advice. I don't know that I could explain it as well as she did, but that is basically what I have done with my dogs. Some dogs more than others. I have 2 Labs a Golden Retriever and a Saint Benard mix that previously killed chickens but now allow the chickens to be all around them without any harm.

I have been through some serious dog training classes and this was that trainers recommendation and it worked for me.

 

[terrilhb]

OK, since you posted this in the open forums, I'll assume that you want to discuss it here.

I DO NOT recommend this type of training on a "regular" dog or on a dog that has aggression towards people (unless you are very skilled in handling troubled dogs). This type of training is not for basic commands, it is to fix a problem.

The first thing you need to do is prepare yourself. You MUST have a spine and a hard heart thru this. You MUST be consistant. You MUST MUST MUST be consistant......otherwise you will be doing nothing more than torturing this dog. Be prepared to feel like a total hill, and to irritate a few people. When it gets hard and frustrating, remind yourself that this may well save this dogs life.

You will start out being overly strict and ease up as his intellect goes in the right direction. You will need a 4-5 foot lead and a small area to confine him (a crate or a small room). When he is in the crate or small room (or even a barn stall), he is to have NO attention. NONE. Don't even look at him, no matter how much he may carry on.

Now, put the leash on him and either hold the lead or attach it to your body. Where you go he goes. Take him everywhere you can, if he is a house dog, he goes to the bathroom with you.......

Make him be calm. If you are standing still, he must SIT. Ask him to sit, push his bottom down and say GOOD BOY when he does. Just say Good boy, dont pet dont give a treat, say good boy and leave it at that. When he stands back up correct him. LOUDLY. "NO! Sit!"

Dont set him up for failure....he will not be able to sit but for a few minutes at a time at first.

Use this loud correction everytime he does something you dont want him to do. Pulling, face licking, jumping, etc. Once you make something a NO, it must always be a NO without exception.

Stay away from the livestock with him at this point.

You'll keep him on this short leash like this for a couple days. NO off lead time at all. Right now, his whole world revolves around you. NO food in the crate.....he eats only when attached to you (same thing with drinking, it's hot, so be sure to offer water frequently).

Let's talk about being LOUD. WHen you say NO.......BOOM it out. Draw up your belly and let the word explode out. Make the word deep and loud. He should startle when you do it. If not, give the lead a quick sharp tug (not hard, just enough to get his attention) or goto walmart and buy a small airhorn (they are about 5$ in the sporting goods).

The loudness is important for this type of situation. He needs to understand that you are bigger, you are in charge, but his mind hasnt been attuned to paying attention to this yet. As he progresses you will get softer.


No affection until we reach the breaking point. The "breaking point"........this is when the dog has began to change the mentality that got him in trouble to begin with. Dogs reveal it in many ways, but we want a dog that is slightly afraid when he hears you go "NO" in the loud voice. He should cringe, the tail go down, and he should IMMEDIATELY look to you. This is your break thru moment.........as soon as he shows that little bit of fear and looks to you (he MUST LOOK TO YOU) then you should IMMEDIATELY lavish him with praise and affection. Stop what you are doing sit down on the floor and love the snot out of that dog.

The goal is to have him understand that he has every reason to fear you, but trust you enough to not be afraid. This will make YOU his "hero".......he is frightened and you "rescue" him with your praise. This will, in the long run, make him more stable mentally (for when we start him with the livestock), and at the same time form a bond to you that causes him to WANT to be part of your pack (right now, YOUR pack consists of you and your livestock, not him). Once he wants to be part of it, we'll teach him that the livestock is part of the pack and get him to understand that YOU will assign his place in that pack.

Be patient. Dont try to rush things. Be firm, consistant and sound as harsh as you possibly can when you say NO. Stand up tall and bellow it out. Make the sound startle him every time if you can.

Do be patient. Put him in the crate or room and ignore him when you get frustrated.......frustration renders you unable to teach and your student unable to learn. Frustration often leads to abuse. Dont show compassion either, until he has earned it. Compassion isnt all it's chalked up to be, esp when it enables a dog to continue down a distructive path.

I once trained a Doberman that took 6 days to reach the breaking point. If she hadn't reached it, she would have been euth'd because she had killed several other dogs. I was harsh,and rigid, and that dog HATED me until she reached her breaking point. When she "broke", she went down and showed me her belly, she broke so hard. In five minutes she was wagging her nub and licking my face. This previous dog killer now lives in a house with 5 corgi's and gets along wonderful. My lack of compassion was the most compassionate thing I could do for her, she would be dead if I had felt compassion for her before that point.

Your dog may not "break" as hard as this one did......just watch for the fear startle and the eyes on you. He should show a somewhat submissive stance, even if its just a small one, be prepared to praise praise praise. NO TREATS at this point........your love and attention should be reward enough right now.

Once you get to this point on the short lead, move up to a longer lead (10-15 feet), still not going around the livestock. He knows what you expect at this point, so YOU need to expect instant and unquestioning obedience from him. Resort to the loud "NO" correction EACH time you dont get INSTANT obedience. By instant obedience, I mean INSTANT. If you say "sit" his but should be on the ground before you draw another breath. There are no exceptions and no excuses......was he too distracted to sit? Tough. He needs to be paying attention to your voice always. Wash he distracted by a smell? Tough. He needs to be paying attention always.

Dont set him up for failure.....pay attention to his actions as well. If he is sniffing, say him name to gain his attention and then tell him to sit. (or what ever command you want to give him).

This next part is important. Do it carefully.

The final test before moving on to the next phase is to test (and teach) self control. Place some meat out or a favorite toy.....something he will REALLY want. But dont let him have it. When he goes for it........give the NO......and tell him to wait. Praise him (no treats) for backing off. Make him wait progressively longer each time and then tell him OK and let him have whatever it was.

THEN

Put something that he would really want but cannot have out within his reach. A sandwich, a large piece of meat.........honestly, I like a freshly killed carcass of some sort for this step, but maybe your not comfortable with that.

Anyway, when he goes for it give the NO.......be loud and harsh and praise when he backs off (if you completed the previous step he should know to back off). Tell him "LEAVE IT". He will wait and go after it again telling him to "LEAVE IT, repeat the whole thing over and over until he looses interest, then and ONLY then give him a treat. Eventually, he will learn that when he is told to "leave it" he must not even acknowledge the temptation. He should look away from the temptation and look to you immediately.

When he is at the end of a 15 foot lead, and will obey the command "leave it" without hesitation, he is ready for the next step.......still not going around the livestock, but obeying without question OFF the lead, and learning that "'leave it" means to leave it even when you are not in site. You'll have to set him up to fail on this part. Leave the temptation out within reach and then leave the room.....return shortly (within 2 minutes) to find it gone and then crate him and ignore him. The next time, try to leave it out where you can see him but he cannot see you and give that sharp correction while storming into the room.

Once you are confident in all this, esp with the "leave it' and "No" commands, let me know and we'll teach him about your livestock. PM me to get my attention if you need to. Ask me any questions during this process. You may run into some obstacles, but we'll work them out.

If you start this method, you must see it through in a consistent fashion. Dont make excuses for him. If you are too tired to do it right, put him in the crate and ignore him. No toys, no praise, no attention, and no treats except at breakthru moments, for now.

Now, I want you to understand something. This harshness IS NOT going to be a permanent thing, you will not be spending the rest of your life with this dog feeling like a hil and a mean drill sargeant. THe more strict, rigid and harsh you are, the quicker it will be over for him and you. Dogs are not robots and cannot be expected to live and thrive as one. Once he is ready, he can go back to a normal dog life. He will quickly realize that his life is much happier when he behaves in a certain way and will act accordingly.

He may go thru a slight depression just before he breaks. If so, you can ease up, but just slightly. Dont break down and let him see you being compassionate though. He must earn your protection, love and compassion. Once he earns those things from you, his whole world will revolve around you and he will be hell-bent to please you. THIS is our goal.

Will you come help me train my dogs? That advice was awesome.

 

[WhiteMountainsRanch]

Ok how to do without him being in the house and without a crate?

 

[bonbean01]

I would get a crate...Red's advice is good...had to do this once many years ago with believe it or not...a Bichon Frise...small dog...it was that or put her down...no kidding...it was ridiculous...phoned the breeder that I bought her from and she gave me this advice and I explained it to my kids and my first loud NO made them jump...but it worked!!!!

Good luck and hope this all turns out well for you and your dog