Draft Horse

[nightsong]

I had horses all my life and always had a yen to get a draft horse, but had
no real experience with one. A couple of days ago I impulse bought a mare that way underpriced for what she was reported to be. Now I'm a bit over my head and need some practical advice. This mare was used as a driving horse where the kids were supposed to ride her around the farm. My thought was to do light trail riding with her.

She seemed to lead just fine with seller, but when I went to catch her for the first time, she planted her feet and didnt want to be led towards the barn. I tried looping a lunge line around her rear colt style, and whacking with a lunge whip, each tap would get a couple of steps and then she'd stop. Over an hour later I finally got her into a small pen by the barn. It was around 100 degrees and I was spent. The mare was sweaty with green flys biting her, so I started hosing her down. Of course she was all spooky about the hose and even kicked out when it hit her feet. (How can a horse that size never of been hosed down before in 12 years...sigh)? I feel like she has learned some avoidance behavior and might have been worked hard with some ill-fitting equipment. She has darker hair growing in places on her face and rump from the bridle and harness She also has a very slack lower lip, that seems like it might have some numbness.

On the plus side she is easy to catch, is extremely tolerant and allows a mini to share a bucket. I was terrified when the mini snuck in as I was leading the mare in a small pen. The last few yards to get her in the barn area I had to use a bucket of grain to get her to move, even used a round pen panel to box her in towards the gate. The mare is wormy and slightly starved, and I thought she might be aggressive about food, but she is quite the opposite. Fly spray seemed to be something she's used to, but this was after a lot of dancing around from the hose down.

Here's where I need help. I think she is used to heavy handed people and also used to getting away with not working just by refusing with more timid types. She is not supple, and does not respond to clicking, or
moderate whip taps. I need tips on how to get this mammoth to move without
A. Having her figure out she can straight line me and walk away.
B. Whipping so hard she bolts, it's very difficult to get her to turn
in circles.

She is in a 20 acre pasture with hills and a creek. She'll move out in any direction except where she thinks she'll be harnessed and worked. I don't want her to learn she can throw her weight around more than she already knows. It would almost be easier to set up a round pen where she stands then to lead her to a work area right now. I believe she will become more supple and responsive with pressure and release techniques in time, but she'll kill me with heat stroke if I have to haul her butt in everytime like the first when I want to work with her. She is on to shaking a grain bucket and won't fall for that, also someone tossing pebbles at her rear. Please don't say send her to a trainer. I plan to after I get some weight on her, vet and farrier care done and figured her out a little. I'm looking for a good draft trainer in Northern Alabama right now. Any Draft owners out there or someone that has experienced the opposite of barn sour with their horse??? Oh, after I let her loose then she started following me around and didnt avoid the pen or barn. Very peculiar horse. I need to name her too. Thanks for any insights, any suggestions at all.

 

[patandchickens]

A couple of days ago I impulse bought a mare that way underpriced for what she was reported to be.

Heh heh heh. Well at least you realize what you've done

First question: what sort of horse experience do you have (type and amount)... it sounds like you have some reasonable idea of how horses work but it might help if we knew a bit more where you're coming from?

Offhand I'd say it sounds like she has bad associations with "work" and "barn", and quite possibly HAS never been hosed off, and possibly never taught to lead the way you want her to lead either.

So my main suggestion would be to do things that teach her that you are to be trusted and are a source of pleasant things NOT unpleasant things (insofar as possible), and very explicitly teach her to move away from pressure (as in, actually REWARD HER for moving away from pressure, don't just figure that the release of the pressure is its own reward)

She also has a very slack lower lip, that seems like it might have some numbness.

Enh, some horses do just have loose flappy lower lip, it doesn't necessarily mean anything.

She is not supple, and does not respond to clicking, or
moderate whip taps. I need tips on how to get this mammoth to move without
A. Having her figure out she can straight line me and walk away.
B. Whipping so hard she bolts, it's very difficult to get her to turn
in circles.

Because of her size, if you could make a VERY VERY STOUTLY FENCED small area to work her in, it'd be helpful. That way you can have some 'oopses' and not have to worry about losing her. If you can't fence somewhere in, just do it on a leadrope (at least she's easy to catch)

And then do a bunch of SHORT SHORT well-rewarded sessions on the subject of moving away from pressure. With some horses it works best to start with moving whole body away from pressure, and fine-tune it down from there to where you can get her to just shift her weight on request; with other horses, it works best to start with rewarding her from shifting weight on request and then gradually ramp it up to moving whole body. Depends on the individual.

I believe she will become more supple and responsive with pressure and release techniques in time, but she'll kill me with heat stroke if I have to haul her butt in everytime like the first when I want to work with her.

If it were me, I'd pen her close to the barn til she gets a better attitude about it... close enough that you do NOT have to give yourself heatstroke to get her there If you then every time you get her there give her some treats or a nice brushing or graze some better grass on leadline or whatever she likes, she is likely to fairly quickly develop more interest in going to the barn. Make sure to keep instructional sessions SHORT and REWARDING.

after I let her loose then she started following me around and didnt avoid the pen or barn.

I don't know what other horses you have around that might make the following unwise, but if she is alone or with TRUSTWORTHY companions, have you considered trying to lead her to the barn *without* a leadrope or halter, just a bucket of grain? The arrangement being, she doesn't get the grain til she arrives at the barn and you put on the halter. (Grain, apples, carrots, whatever). Use good judgement obviously, as some horses get real witchy if they think there's grain being withheld from them, but I wonder if this might work with yours. It can then be combined with short training sessions/moments.

Basically I don't know how much you've worked with drafts before but the main thing about (most of) them is that they are big on the force of inertia. If they are moving, they tend to stay in motion; if they would rather stand still, they tend to stay standing still. Somewhat irrespective of whatever the funny shouting little person next to them might want So your problems do not greatly surprise me; they can BE like that sometimes. Basically you have to convince 'em there's something in it for them, and get them WANTING to do what you want.

Good luck, have fun,

Pat

 

[nightsong]

Thanks, I think you're right on all fronts. The reason I'm letting her have the run of the pasture is she needs to fatten up and is used to being on pasture. I don't want to throw too many changes all at once at her but I need to worm her next visit and very soon the vet and farrier need to work on her. All no fun and needing her cooperation. I wish I could coop her up but am afraid of intestinal blockage from eating too much hay and especially before clearing up the worm problem. Gradually I'm introducing a little grain. Judging from her appearance I think she was on a poor over-grazed without supplements or worming. I've seen loose lipped horses but water will slosh out of this mares. She inhales grain and grazes normally so it might be just cosmetic. I'm just disappointed that something as basic as leading is a major problem. I can't wait for the farrier visit. Maybe she'll suprise me and be good for that. Where I'm at there's two choices for farriers. One a slight built lady that is kind but takes forever until the best behave horse starts getting antsy. The other is a tough tough guy that tolerates nothing but is quick and does a better cut.

 

[patandchickens]

It would be worth working with her NOW on picking up feet and not leaning on the person holding the foot. Helps with farrier retention, when you own a draft horse

Is there a particular reason you need to lead her back to the barn to work with her? Why not just do Educational Sessions out wherever she is, for now. Or at least near where she is. Making sure that they work out so that she considers them generally a good and desirable thing to be looked forward to, of course.

(e.t.a. - you know about trying not leading her in a straight line? TURN her to get started and whenever she seems about to stop? And tell her what a wonderful girl she is when she IS moving, maybe even give small am'ts of treats if she is not the type of horse to become problematic about that. Only when she is actually moving briskly, not when she is stopped or slowing down, and never ever as a bribe to move)

Pat

 

[Chirpy]

I'm guessing Pat has way more experience than I have with horses but I did have 3 Belgian drafts for 8 years. Two of them were half sisters and one of them had a 4 month old colt when I bought them. I raised him, trained him to ride and started to train him to drive before I sold him when he was six years old.

I was 'mis-informed' about his dams behavior/attitudes. I believed what the guy told me (I have a dumb way of just trusting people and what they say to my face) about her and didn't spent the time with her before purchase that I should have (does that sound familiar to you ). Anyway, my first problem with her was to catch her! You, at least, have that part taken care of... lucky you. When a 2200 lb. horse doesn't want to be caught, doesn't want to be led, doesn't want to be ridden, etc..... you don't. She had been abused in some way with a whip and was terrified if someone picked one up across the barn. It took me, literally, 8 months to win her trust. I had the space to keep her in the barn for the first month she was here. She had an indoor stall attached to a large outdoor run. I then started letting her out to pasture, after she was more used to me. My family would have to help 'corral' her when I wanted her back in the barn. That wasn't fun in snow storms or thunderstorms.

I was told by the horse trainer Linda Parelli (Pat's wife) to take her water to her in a bucket and not give her ANY water except what she drank from the bucket when I held it. Linda told me to just wait her out. It was in the 90's (but we don't have much humidity here) when I started that. That mare didn't drink until late in the third day!! I was sure she would die of dehydration but she was fine. I went out multiple times a day and stood there in the stall with the bucket of cold water. When she finally approached and drank from the bucket it did start a turn in her attitude toward me. From that day on she would let me walk up to her and pet her anytime. I spent hours just sitting with her. I worked around the barn doing lots of things just to be near her and talk to her.

By the end of that first 8 months anyone could walk up to her and pet her and put her halter on her, even in the middle of the 20 acre pasture! She was my farriers favorite draft horse to work on as she stood almost perfectly for him; after having her for that 8 months.

I've got to run.. if I think of more I'll add it later.

Just be patient and be near her and follow what Pat has said above.

 

[mydakota]

If she is stubborn about going to the barn because she thinks she might have to work?? Make her work where she is. A lot. Sides heaving, sweat dripping, needing to air up work. ( I do understand that if she is way too thin you may have to let her regain her health first) Let her rest at the barn. Her attitude about the barn will change. She sounds like she is terribly spoiled and expects to get her way. Respect is non transferable. If she worked well for her old owner but not now? She respected him, and you have not yet given her a reason to respect you.

I am big on compliance. The horse doesn't get to vote. I refuse to bribe him/her. It is not a democracy. As the handler, it is incumbent upon me to be sure the horse understands what I am asking. Justice demands that I don't hold them accountable for responses I haven't properly conditioned them for. But if I am absolutely sure they know what I am asking? They better do it. Sooner rather than later.

I am not a Parelli fan. I think too many people (certainly not all) who start that program are still doing "games" and groundwork even a year later and still are not riding much if at all, and they have convinced themselves they are making progress, even though the horse is still not doing what was originally being asked of it and they are still afraid to ride him. All that notwithstanding, a proper amount of groundwork to establish proper responses is certainly appropriate, but if you are not progressing past it in a reasonable amount of time you have to ask yourself if it is really working like you need it to.