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Farrier hitting horse?!?!?

Discussion in 'Behaviors & Handling Techniques - Horses, Mules, a' started by RayofHopeFarms, May 7, 2012.

  1. May 8, 2012
    DonnaBelle

    DonnaBelle True BYH Addict

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    I'm not a well informed horse person, but I do know one thing.

    YOU DO NOT HIT AN ANIMAL OR A HUMAN.

    PERIOD, END OF DISCUSSION.

    DonnaBelle
     
  2. May 8, 2012
    yankee'n'moxie

    yankee'n'moxie Ridin' The Range

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    I do NOT agree with hitting an animal for no reason. My horses get a "Love tap" if they nip or kick (which is almost never), then worked until they submit. I don't smack them because they pulled a foot away, nor would I let my farrier. I was so lucky to have a good farrier referred to me by a friend. He is great! Always firm, and demanding, NEVER harmful to the horse.

    You did the right thing to get rid of him! If you continued to let him work, you would have been saying that he was doing a good job and that is OK. Glad that you kicked him out!!
     
  3. May 8, 2012
    sawfish99

    sawfish99 Overrun with beasties

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    The first time you have a horse's teeth clamping down on your shoulder, instinct/self preservation may take over and give you a different perspective.
     
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  4. May 8, 2012
    KinderKorner

    KinderKorner Loving the herd life

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    ^^^^ Very True.

    My farrier is sort of the same way. He doesn't put up with mean or dangerous horses.

    If he is trimming and they start pulling, stomping, biting, or kicking he yells "quit" once or twice. If they don't catch on they get a yank on the lead, or a smack with the rasp.

    I don't condone such treatment, but I can't say I blame him for being so strict.

    It usually only takes one time of them to learn it's not okay, and then they will remember and respect him from then on.

    I don't like being kicked or bitten either. It's dangerous work, and they have to keep themselves safe.

    None of my horses have ever been 'hurt' by getting smacked with the rasp. (And they never got it more than once.)

    With saying that, I think your farrier was in a bad mood, and came in with an uncalled for attitude. He should have been more patient. I would have too looked for a different person.
     
  5. May 8, 2012
    Siouxqie

    Siouxqie Exploring the pasture

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    I agree totally. When I was 17 I was picked up by the shoulder by a clydesdale draft horse and slammed against a barn wall. In case you aren't familiar with horses, DonnaBelle, clydesdales are HUGE, and when they clamp their teeth into your shoulder and slam you against a barn wall, your life is in danger. The friend who owned her, hit her hard in the shoulder to get her to let go. Unfortunately, sometimes a good smack is what has to happen when the animals behavior is endangering someones life or physical well being. In the case of that horse, we don't know what went wrong, she was well-trained, had always been well-behaved. She was not in heat, it just happened. I have a mini donkey now (no other equines), and even he can be dangerous if he gets startled and rears or bucks. I've had him rear and break my toe when he landed because he got spooked. I don't condone what the farrier did (in the original post) because that sounds like he was looking for a fight, but to say "You do not hit an animal or a human. Period. End of Discussion." Sounds really un-educated, and un-informed. If my life is in danger, or that of another person, "you gotta' do what you gotta' do."
     
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  6. May 8, 2012
    goodhors

    goodhors Overrun with beasties

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    Horses are like any herd animal, they will fight, bite, kick, to gain status in the herd. Those "with status" get to drink and eat first in the game
    of survival. Horse doesn't care if he lives on a farm or wild, this behaviour is in his genes, so that is how they act. Farm situations
    may make YOU and horse the entire herd, and at SOME TIME the horse is going to challenge for a leadership role. If you give way, back down,
    you COULD get hurt since horse will not allow you any "personal space" again. He will EXPECT you to get out of his way or get run down!
    That is how herd status works. Cattle herds work the same way. In herds you move or get knocked over, bitten or kicked if the animal
    doesn't see you as "head horse" in your herd-of-two.

    Horses are NOT people, don't THINK like people or react like any humans. You could hit a horse as hard as you can with your hand, still not
    come even CLOSE to the power of a hoof landing in a kick. So a slap is more like a startle reaction from the horse, no severe pain except to
    your hand. Your human body is not up to taking punishment from horses very long, before you are severely damaged. Even Minis weigh more
    than you, can pack a terrific power into kicking and biting. You can't match that power.

    In handling equines, you need to train them, then CONTINUE to reinforce that training forever, so they don't "give it a try" and hurt someone badly.
    Equines are NOT PEOPLE, you can't treat them like children or reasoning persons, to get good training results. They think and react like horses,
    FAST, in situations. More folks get hurt or ruin good animals trying to treat them like are babies, than would seem possible. Those folks still keep
    coming though, just don't get it that powerful equines are not "pets", can't be treated as pets for safety. People need to BE IN CHARGE,
    horses look for the Herd Leader to manage situations.
     
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  7. May 8, 2012
    ThreeBoysChicks

    ThreeBoysChicks Loving the herd life

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    I still think that your farrier was in the wrong. I do my own horses and I know how much a good pair nippers cost. I cannot imagine doing anything with them other than their intended purpose. But, I have to agree with the others or training, space and overall behavior. I have Draft horses. They are big, weighing over 2000 lbs each. And while they are not mean, I always reinforce my space is my space. That may be an elbow to their chest or side or an open handed smack. But, they must respect that. Every horse is different and some react very differently to differents things.

    Good luck with finding a new farrier.
     
  8. May 8, 2012
    Texokie

    Texokie Just born

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    Wow. That farrier was a piece of work. Isn't it the hardest thing in the world to find a good farrier?!?! I have a WONDERFUL young man right now, with endless patience with my horses. If the horse pulls away, he lets go for a second and then tries again. Eventually, since he works very hard to keep the situation low-stress, the horses come around and let him finish up the trim/shoes. He is not one of those farriers that rushes to the next job - he takes the amount of time needed to keep each horse at ease. I've had a few cards myself, though...I had one in Texas that came out early (before our scheduled appointment...I am ALWAYS on-site when a farrier comes out), and proceeded to sedate one of our horses without our knowledge/permission. We came out, and Jo's head was dragging the ground. THEN, we get a bill a week later for the shoes AND the cost of the unauthorized sedation. Needless to say, he never came near our horses again...and in the horse community, word-of-mouth goes a long way towards "culling" those kinds of folks...
     
  9. May 8, 2012
    DonnaBelle

    DonnaBelle True BYH Addict

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    Listen people, go back and read THE ORIGINAL POST. I was replying in the context that that moron FARRIER over-reacted and hit the horse with a tool as soon as the horse had a small reaction.

    In other words, a PROFESSIONAL PERSON RECEIVING COMPENSATION was hitting a client's animal/property.

    Yes, if a horse bit me, or did something awful to me on purpose I would probably get rid of the animal.

    I'm sorry I don't believe in hitting an animal or a human everytime they did something minor to tick me off, ESPECIALLY WITH A STEEL TOOL IN MY HAND.

    Perhaps I am ignorant or uninformed, but I don't go around hitting anything.

    If someone/something were threatening my family or livestock, I'd use a firearm, got plenty of those.

    DonnaBelle
     
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  10. May 8, 2012
    RayofHopeFarms

    RayofHopeFarms Chillin' with the herd

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    Thank you all for your replies! I want to clarify a few things that I did not say in the orginal post. Mooshine is an amazing younger horse (5 yrs old) I told the guy on the phone that she could be a little touchy around men but after that man is around her for a little bit and pets her and talks to her she is fine, my sister picks up her feet everyday to clean them out before riding, she was never acting in a mean way towards the farrier (no biting, kicking, or rearing) she simply pulled her leg from between his, my sister is strict with moon because she can be bossy, my sister was holding her for him and when she started to pull back my sister instantly told her to whoa and knock it off, I am NOT against giving her a smack with an open hand when she wont listen after so long she has gotten that a few times but I would NEVER hit her with a metal object!!! I agree with what goodhors said about finding a way to correct the behavior and my next step is to go and get some of the tool or borrow some just show her that these WILL NOT hurt her again. We now know that she has not had her hooves done as often as the previous owners would like to think and we can only learn from here. I have had two other males in the pen with her to pick up her feet and she was fine it just took them being a bit more gentle with her to let her warm up to them. This guy was young like maybe mid 20's and I think he was just WAYYYYY inexperienced and I made the mistake of letting him even start after feeling the way I did after getting out of the truck. I do believe she may have some soreness with pulling her leg outward to get it between his legs which we will work on and if it seems to be painful we will have to find a farrier that will work with that complication. Goodhors I really appriciate your advice and there will be more handling done with her hooves and overall education for us as well. Again I want to thank you all for your opinions and it's good to know that I am not crazy and I hate to hear that this has happened to others. We will be taking her to the vet soon to have her hoof looked at and then talk to another farrier that was recommened to us from somone with a similar situation.

    Thank you all!!