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Feed troubles

Discussion in 'Feeding Time - Cattle (Feed & Forages)' started by raeleigh26, Dec 23, 2017.

  1. Dec 23, 2017
    raeleigh26

    raeleigh26 Overrun with beasties

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    I've got a 6m old Angus heifer, bottle calf weaned at 4m who from day one would NOT eat.
    I've tried everything available here.
    Yes, everything.
    This is what I've gotten her to eat, finally, and am also giving the bull 1 1/2yr, underweight, and my 6m brangus heifer. The scoop I use holds about 3/4 lb, I've weighed it with each type of feed in the mix. It's about the same for all.
    2-12% high grain all stock (country lane)
    2-14% bonanza performance horse
    1-14% feedlot mix
    1 cup calf manna (household cup)
    Feedlot mix contains soybean hulls, DDG from corn, corn chops, and a hay pellet that's it
    [​IMG][​IMG](that's wheat mids that got cut off the picture)
    They also have this tub
    [​IMG]
    This is what I've gotten Val to eat. She cleans it up. Won't touch creep, cubes, textured calf, or any other available cattle feed(and that's pretty much it aside from show calf feed)
    All stock isn't enough by itself, I think.
    Imo it's stuff swept off the floor with molasses and minerals added.
    I added the bonanza and feedlot stuff for better quality.... I hope...
    ]My question is, is this enough? Too much?
    Overkill? Can/should I feed the same to dolly?
    The calves are gaining and growing on it. But any advice for a better mix, (recipes?) adjustment, or change altogether greatly appreciated!
    I'm hoping that since I've gotten her to clean her bucket for over a month now, she'll begin to eat what's put in front of her instead of being so picky.
     
  2. Dec 23, 2017
    greybeard

    greybeard Herd Master

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    No, the all-stock alone won't cut it.
    16% rice hulls....As I remember you from back when, I know you aren't a novice cattle person, but rice hulls are about the most 'nothing' filler there is.
    And, the fat content of that all-stock is too low IMO. Should be up over 3.5% at least.

    Rice mill feed is a blend of rice bran and rice hulls. The blend may vary, but often is 50:50 to 67:33 rice bran to rice hulls. Based on the above review, raw rice bran was reported by various sources to contain on average 14-19% crude protein, 15-22% fat, 9-20% acid detergent fiber and 8-13% ash....Rice bran is the high quality component of rice mill feed as rice hulls have little feeding value. Rice hulls, as reported in the Third Revision of the Nutritional Data for United States and Canadian Feeds, contains 12% TDN while rice bran is listed at 70%.
    There's lots better all stock out there than what your calf chose to like.
    The heifer probably likes the molasses in the horse feed and the all stock.

    Are you feeding and does she eat any hay?
    Tubs 'can' help if you are feeding poor quality hay, but are no substitute for dry matter.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2017
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  3. Dec 23, 2017
    farmerjan

    farmerjan Herd Master

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    14% is adequate for a growing calf. If she is eating it, gaining and not getting a "hay gut" them don't sweat it. If she gets hungry enough she will eat. Very few will starve themselves. And if they do, it is time for them to be someone elses' problem.
    All our feed has the Bio-moss in it and I find it seems to add something to their digestibility.
    I am feeding a 1/2 and 1/2 mix of 14% calf feed and 17% stocker pellet to my calves. A 5 gal bucket for the 12 that are in the barn. 11 on cows, one is an orphan that I brought in so he can get more/better feed. That's about 25-28 lbs to a bucket. Some are 2 1/2 months, the youngest 3 are about a month old. All are eating some. That's avg. 2 + lbs per calf per day, plus all the milk they nurse off the cows. Not exactly rocket science, but they all go to the feed bunk when I put the feed in, and it is spread out so there is no crowding.
     
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  4. Dec 23, 2017
    raeleigh26

    raeleigh26 Overrun with beasties

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    Decent grass mix hay is out 24/7.

    Where I am there's very limited choices for feed, you buy box store prebagged stuff, bagged specialty show stock feed, or mix by the ton from one of 2 mills within half hour drive.
    The expense leaves me buying from tractor supply or orscheln.
    Again, the feed that's not crud is expensive.
    Nutebeef, or creep or cubes. Those are my choices.
    Or whole corn, whole oats, alfalfa pellets. Again, at 9$ bag, 40#.
    It is possible to buy mix from the mill bagged. If I bring my own and buy at least 10.
     
  5. Dec 23, 2017
    raeleigh26

    raeleigh26 Overrun with beasties

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    She was getting obviously thin on top and potbellied, she was wormed with pour on, then injectable ivermectin, then pellet wormer over 3 months. During that time I got her eating the current mix, I'm finally seeing growth, good belly, not looking wormy, which may not have been the problem to begin with, as the other girl raised the same was fine.

    I guess I could try to put the creep into the mix and slowly add while subtracting the others until she's eating just creep, and trick her into getting used to it?
    They look good now, I just want a simpler and more cost effective feed.
     
  6. Dec 23, 2017
    farmerjan

    farmerjan Herd Master

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    We get our 17% stocker pellet delivered by the ton in our feed bins, but they will also bag it. The 14% I buy bagged as it is easier for me to handle, and don't have an available bin right now. There is quite a bit of molasses on it, and I use it for my milk/nurse cows mixed with the 17% pellet also. The 14% is just less than $10.00 a 50 lb. Can't remember the 17% by the ton right off hand but I am thinking in the neighborhood of $300.00. This mill uses very little by product type feed and next to no filler junk. One reason why I like it.
    I am feeding about 75 lbs per day I guess with the nurse cows each getting about 12-15 lbs each ( 1/2 of 5 gal bucket to each of 5 cows per day) and the calves getting 25+ lbs ( 1 bucket), per day. The cows are all in good flesh except the latest nurse cow I just got, she was thin and I have only had her a week. Likes her grain though. The 5 in the barn now get 1 50 lb sq bale alfalfa a day, plus all the orchard grass/mix grass hay they want free choice.
     
  7. Dec 23, 2017
    Mini Horses

    Mini Horses Herd Master

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    Wish I could buy any of that for that price here.....corn close but the others are 12-14 per 40# bag.
    Look at Purina Enrich, expensive BUT, used as a supplement. I have used it for along time for my mini horses & goats -- especially if I feel an animal needs a "boost" for a while.
     
  8. Dec 23, 2017
    greybeard

    greybeard Herd Master

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    TSC should have either
    https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/nutrena-nutrebeef-grower-finisher

    or

    https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/purina-textured-stocker-grower-50-lb?cm_vc=IOPDP1

    I use and prefer the Nutrena product once they're on feed. Probably only about $1 more per bag than the allstock you're using now, but if I read it right, you are getting the desired results from the horse feed/all stock mix, and I suspect most of that improvement is from the 14% protein horse feed.
    I'd probably either replace the all stock with a grower, or just feed the horse feed alone, with a good mineral. Unless there's something about Performance horse feed I'm not seeing, it should do what you want as long as the mineral needs are taken care of as well. Unless you have another reason for buying it, I'd probably drop the manna too. IF you need more protein, you can feed a scoop of 20% cubes once/week.
     
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  9. Dec 23, 2017
    raeleigh26

    raeleigh26 Overrun with beasties

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    Well, that's just the corn, sorry, oats ate $12, alfalfa... Twenty something, I've never bought it.
     
  10. Dec 23, 2017
    raeleigh26

    raeleigh26 Overrun with beasties

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    I've tried it. Both.
    I'm telling you, this calf is the most picky thing ever.
    She's also slow.
    No, I mean ssssslllloooow
    They're all separated and feed individually, not in a bunk, because she takes 45 minutes to finish 5 lb.
    Everyone else done in ten.

    I should be happy she's eating at all.
    I don't get it, I've seen this in dairy cows, turn their noses up at everything, buncha princess divas. But in a beef calf?

    And I'm really serious.. From day one. So much trouble getting her to try creep from a week old. Once she was weaned it became obvious I needed her to get something more than hay. She did better on grass but now it's dormant and is a big problem again

    Also, I agree that it's probably mostly the horse feed, but it's a crumble, she hates the texture.
    The feedlot mix is a powder basically, same issue, she doesn't like pellets, eats them even more slowly, and will occasionally take cubes, but takes forever to eat a handful.
    I thought textured would be good, but nutrebeef isn't sweet enough, she'd only eat it with the sweet added. Which brought the nutrition down, unless I feed twice as much.
    I have checked her mouth, looks perfectly fine, as that seems an obvious possibility, no health problems, I just need her to keep growing as she'll be a breeding heifer and hopefully ready for that by September.

    Add: I've tried putting her together with the other heifer, competition should entice her to eat, but not really. They're fed straight across from each other now though and she does get aggressive when piper tries to reach her feed through the fence. So there is improvement.
    Normally I'd think she's being what she needs, don't push it, but her condition showed otherwise in a short time when she was young.
    She was dewormed with pellets, pour on, and injectable ivermectin over 3 months.
    Doesn't look unthrifty, only had a little cold a few weeks ago, never been sick other than that.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2017