First lesson failure

[Lil-patch-of-heaven]

Well .... Hmph!

It looks like I'd do better to put off starting handling the weanling until I can get ANOTHER area built. I thought what I had would work but my first attempt I'd have to say was a failure. On my part at least. Lol.

I have a book by Sandi Burt that includes a chapter on training and that's what I'm following though I've also read a number of articles online from Camelidynamics and Gentle Spirit. It's hard for me to read a lot online on this tiny phone screen tho. Anyways .... I got the weanling cornered and got an arm around hid neck. Was just waiting for him to relax so I could release him to hopefully get him used to being caught and handled so he knows he won't be eaten lol. Before he relaxed though he decided to release himself. I'm a pretty small person and from time to time I get reminded of that fact while working with animals. Sometimes I het a physics lesson to boot lol. At any rate, the little guy knows he set himself free, he's now much more wary of me, AND he's not going to be fooled into entering that corner again. He also knows he can outrun dh lol.

Sigh.

All I can think to do is build a smaller pass-through kind of pen where I can catch him since he WILL follow the female. He's adopted her like a second mother. I'm not sure how she feels about him but I think MAYBE she's pleased. She's pretty much lost interest in the goats though she's more patient with them (even walks away if they get in her food) and she's really looking to me a lot more and very tolerant of me handling her neck and head. I hoped the little guy would see that and take cues from her but he just acted disgusted and walked away while I was handling her after the incident where he threw me down and escaped.

At least he didn't step on me. I just got dirtied up and some scrapes and a few sore joints lol.

Looks like I'm back to before square one. And dh probably isn't going to be thrilled to have another building project. I better bake him an apple pie lol.

 

[ksalvagno]

That is your problem. You cornered him. When you start training, it should be in a small area. If you can, read about the 4 point approach in camelid dynamics. I'm not sure if she even calls it that anymore. I would highly recommend that you buy the Camelidynamics book. It is really hard to type everything in here. Just too much to type.

The llama will never relax with your arm around his neck. You are a predator and you got him. That is what he knows.

Part of Camelidynamics is having a small enough pen to work in so the llama always has a way to get away from you but for you not too far. When he has a way out, after a while he doesn't feel the need to get away. Where your body is positioned compared to the llama makes a difference too. But that is all in the Camelidynamic book. Unfortunately, i just don't have the time to type everything out.

Good luck and don't give up.

 

[mully]

You need to be patient and go slow, it takes a great deal of time for a llama to trust you. They are curious creatures and will come to you but the first few times do not touch him let him smell you. Of all the books out there get Johns book he has it down http://www.mallonmethod.com/index.html

 

[Lil-patch-of-heaven]

Thanks y'all.

Well ... The book I have is (I believe) the one given out by the llama rescue with adoptions. It seemed to make sense in the details and didn't seem to absolutely contradict what I'd read at Camelidynamics or Gentle Spirit. It does seem a rather forceful method at the start though, if only for brief periods. Hmmmm now that I think about it the only time I recall success with a similar forced desensitization was with feral kittens. Anyways ...

I guess the book is outdated in it's method then. I'm guessing The Camelid Companion is the book on training by the Camelidynamics? Since I ordered the halter set I'm not able to spend that kind of money just yet again. I can't find it cheaper at any of my usual favorite sources and the association doesn't have it in the lending library.

I did look at John Mellon's site and read a couple of articles. I'm not sure of the book title or DVD you mean about training, but thanksfor the link Mully. It's interesting ... I was talking to dh recently and telling him about a method of horse training I was very interested in and have read books about. It's a non-traditional method and involves (among other things) desensitizing the horse by "sacking" -- allowing a sack to rub on the body. It has been on my mind lately as I watch the llamas and it seems to me I'd prefer that sort of slow approach to building trust with them. Then on Mellons site he said his method is exactly the same with horses, and a DVD of training a llama talked about desensitizing
by rubbing it with a towel. I'm intrigued I must say. I had been thinking lately of trying to dig up a
book to reread about working with young horses in that way and maybe applying it to the llamas.


I am willing to take all the time needed. But temps here are into the 90s some days and neither of these llamas are sheared. I don't want to frighten them but ... I also don't want them getting heatstroke.

The female is getting better each day about being handled. At least from the left side lol. Something else Mellon mentioned that I've noticed. Getting them usedto being approached and handled from the left does NOT equal being able to do it from the right. You almost have to start over. They are NOT interchangeable. At least notwithstanding my female.

thanks so much y'all. Well ... I guess I will put that book away. I won't be trying that again. Thanks for pointing out what I was doing wrong.

 

[Jake]

There are a lot of similarities between Camelids and Horses, one is learning on both sides of the brain, what you teach them from one side has to be done from the other side, once you are used to working with them on one side just slowly reapply it to the other side, from scratch.

'Sacking out' is an old cowhands method of getting a horse used to being touched , and handled, normally its done with the horse tied, the name comes from literally using a feed sack to rub them down, letting them sniff it and then working all over the side, up the neck and then down the legs, no quick movements, just steady smooth movements, while doing it get them also used to you working on their feet, belly and stepping under the neck, dont do a whole lot of talking, just quiet sure movements around them, gradually getting closer while not cornering them, too much talking does no good with them, its only to hide your own nervousness from yourself, just concentrate on what you are doing.

Google Monty Roberts, Clinton Anderson and Pat Parelli, I'd go with Clinton first, and read about his methods of working with green stock and young animals.

Daily short times are best, 20 mins to a half hour, always end on an up note.

 

[papeine]

There are a lot of similarities between Camelids and Horses, one is learning on both sides of the brain, what you teach them from one side has to be done from the other side, once you are used to working with them on one side just slowly reapply it to the other side, from scratch.

'Sacking out' is an old cowhands method of getting a horse used to being touched , and handled, normally its done with the horse tied, the name comes from literally using a feed sack to rub them down, letting them sniff it and then working all over the side, up the neck and then down the legs, no quick movements, just steady smooth movements, while doing it get them also used to you working on their feet, belly and stepping under the neck, dont do a whole lot of talking, just quiet sure movements around them, gradually getting closer while not cornering them, too much talking does no good with them, its only to hide your own nervousness from yourself, just concentrate on what you are doing.

Google Monty Roberts, Clinton Anderson and Pat Parelli, I'd go with Clinton first, and read about his methods of working with green stock and young animals.

Daily short times are best, 20 mins to a half hour, always end on an up note.

Never thought much about working with my alpacas like horses, I do like and use Clintons approach.. one question, alpacas appear to be very "herd bonded", I actually haven't been able to do much with one, as the others get pretty upset...

 

[Jules Harrell]

You need to be patient and go slow, it takes a great deal of time for a llama to trust you. They are curious creatures and will come to you but the first few times do not touch him let him smell you. Of all the books out there get Johns book he has it down http://www.mallonmethod.com/index.html

I agree, John Mallon has llamas figured out. I have a fairly aggressive male, two rescued males, and a female, and they all have their own personalities. I built a small catch pen out of doubled up cattle panels, as one of my rescued llamas can jump over a 5.5 foot cattle panel from a standstill. I used hay bale ties to make the catch pen about 11 feet tall. The catch pen is about 14 X 14, not that big but that's all the space I have here on the farm in the mountains where I live. The llamas have a barn with about 1.5 acres fenced for running around. They come into the catch pen because I feed them hay there every day, and on good weather days, I go out there in the afternoon with a pail of feed.

Once out in the catch pen with the pail of feed, I can put it down, sit down, face away from the llamas and they will all come in immediately, even my most scared rescue who had a very traumatic life. The key to getting your llamas calmed down is to face AWAY from them and if they are really afraid, make yourself even smaller than them. I slowly edge around the llamas, facing away from them, then close the "gate" which is two cattle panels tied together, 11 feet tall.

Inside with the llamas, usually I'll have three of them as the really scared one will require two people to capture but it has been done. I have my brush and will start brushing them. My one male who is aggressive tries to bully me but I have the hat trick, learned by Wes Laraway, a man I consider The Llama Whisperer of our Northeast area of upstate NY. I wear my hat and if I even touch it the aggressive male backs off for a moment. I brush him a little too. The llamas have time and space to get away from me so I will occasionally walk over to where they are if they move, but their curiosity gets the best of them and in fact, they all love attention.

This type activity carried out daily will calm your llamas down. No halter required. I do have a chute so for eye lash trimming (my rescued scared llama has eyelash problems) and shots, I put them into the chute, and that's a whole other story.

John Mallon's videos tell the story. You can watch 4 hours of John in the round pen with an intact male and see him calm that wild llama down. It takes time and effort. I have begun working with my llamas again after a hiatus from the catch pen. Even before I was actively working them, I would sit with them in their barn or pull a chair up to the fence and hang out with them. Just your presence works, especially if you don't do anything to them all the time. Just go sit in their barn in a corner, facing the wall. They'll come in and visit you. The greatest gift your llama can give you is to lie down in your presence. That means you are trusted.

Jules

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