Goat is Scouring, NOW WHAT????

20kidsonhill

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Call it scouring, runny poop, or the squirts anyway you wish, but what are you going to do about it? What are your next steps to caring for your sick goat. Or is he sick at all?

The three main causes of scours, bacterial, parasitic and dietary are not always unrelated to each other and one may lead to another cause. A very common example would be your goat getting into your chicken feed. At first you suspect dietary scours, which would be true, but after several hours your goat looks horrible, bloated, pouring scours, and has a high temp. The dietary scours has bloomed into a bacterial scours called Overeating disease.

I am going to try to create a series of steps on evaluating your scouring goat. I welcome other forum members to add on to this thread and discribe how they evaluate their scouring goat, or to just ask questions or make comments about my suggestions or others suggestions. My discussion is my opinions/experience and you should consult with your vet before treating your animal or using a drug off label.

What do I do Next???

Every day I check everyones bottoms, you just never know when those nicely formed pelleted poops will start running. When I realize someone no longer has nicely formed pellets, I stand back and start evaluating the situation and ask myself a few questions. Some of the answers are quite obvious right away and some take a little more thought.

How old is the goat? I would expect a younger goat to be having problems more with coccidiosis or overetaing disease than an older goat.

Did I make any changes recently that would have caused stress? Was the animal recently weaned, or moved to a new pen, or any feed changes? From experience I know that if I had run out of loose minerals and just added more, I may get a goat or two scouring for part of the day. I never expect dietary scours to last longer than one day. Stress can be a big factor in a parasite bloom.

How long has it been since the goat was last wormed or treated? Most parasites can easily rebloom in 14 to 21 days. Just because you wormed 2 months ago, or the person you bought your new goat from wormed them two weeks ago, doesn't been they are not having a parasite problem.

what time of year and what are the weather conditions? Spring time and growing green grass is the perfect time for a parasite explosion. Also after an extended drought and then a nice rain fall, don't be surprised if you start seeing problems about 10 days later. The rain is a welcome sight, but the parasites are also enjoying it. They have laid dormant during that drought.

How thrifty is the goat looking? Is the goat still interested in eating? Is it mobile and still alert? Laying off by themselves?

How anemic is the goat? I check gums and eyes for anemia. If the goat is pale I need to consider Barberpole worms, bleedout, and treating for anemia. We use Red cell orally, and an injectable iron shot along with B-complex shots. The B-complex can be given every few hours, but the iron shot shouldn't be given more than a couple times a week. Red cell contains a lot of minerals and can lead to an overdose of copper or selenium. It also doesn't absorb as quickly as the injectable iron does. However, I find the vitamines and minerals in the red cell to be benificial and help the goat have a stronger immune system. I often add a capsul or two of Vitamin E (400 IU)to the red cell on a daily basis as well. We will talk about energy drenches later on.

Is the goat sick enough to be isolated? I take careful consideraton into separating the goat from their group. Once the goat is separated from the group they have to be 100% recovered, or the other goats will be hard on them when they go to establish themselves back in the group. I always pull the goat out if they are already being picked on, Often times a doe that becomes sick that is higher up on the herd status will start to be picked on my the lower members as they try to move above her in status and take advantage of her weakened state. I always separate a goat that is anemic, because they will need extra protein and feed to help build red build cells over the next few weeks.

What is her temp? A low tempurature is a bad bad thing and a sign that the animal is in really bad shape. Immediate treating and hydration is needed. We will get to treatments in a little bit. A high tempurature is an indication of a bacterial infection causing the scours. Bacterial infections can progress very very quickly and become life threatening in just a few hours after the first signs of scouring. Body temp is taken in the bottom with a rectal thermometer. Feed stores sell livestock thermometers.

Do you want to do a fecal? I will admit we rarely do fecals. First, it can get pricey. Secondly, I swear my goats wait until Friday at 5pm to start scouring. They certainly aren't going to wait until Monday afternoon for results. I also will say that I have brought in fecal samples more than one time and they came back clean and I still had more than one scouring goat. So with that said, I am not saying to not do fecals. A fecal can be a very very good tool. It may not show anything, but then again if it does show a high coccidiosis load or a bunch of giardia in the fecal sample, then you know one of the things that you are for sure dealing with. I find a positive to be accurate, but a clean fecal to not always show the problem and not always be true. Hope that made sense.

How much scours are on the ground? Look around you, is there piles of scours? Sometimes you can actually track the progession of the poop piles from being dog log, to looser and then looser. If there is a lot of really big, runny piles, I start thinking about how I am going toehydrate the goat? How dehydrated is the goat?

How dehydrated is the goat looking? Hydration is the main reason your goat is going to die, while you work on figuring out what to treat them with and what is actually causing the scours. When we become so sick, we drink more, we may even become weak enough that we go to the hospital and the first thing they do is give us an IV of fluids. Your goat doesn't have the thought process of,"Drink more because poop is pouring out or I will become dehydrated." You will have to do that for them. Pen them so they are close to a very fresh, clean source of water.
-drenching/feeding syringe come in 10 cc to 50cc. One ounce is 30cc's, Often time you are trying to get several ounces into them at a time. If they are not on a bottle this can be tricky to do.
-electrolytes such as Bounce Back, Sav A Caf Plus, RE-sorb ect.... we use Sav A caf plus and Re-sorb
-Iv kit and IV fluids that can be put under the skin can make a big difference. When the stomach is already very upset, getting enough fluid in them orally is next to impoosible. For example: an adult doe can receive 2 or 3 bags of IV fluid a day(a bag is 1,000 ml). You can not overdose on the stuff, you may get carried away and give them a little adema, but other than that it is a very very good way to hydrate your goat.
50% dextrose and amino Acid fluids These also can be injected under the skin and help with energy and hydration. I follow the dosage recommendations on the bottle. They can be overdosed.
Making your own solution I have seen several recipees on-line for making your own oral solution or pedialyte type mixture, Gatorade and pedialyte can also be used.
***caution should be used when using oral solutions high in potassium, Potassium can become off balanced in the system and cause problems****
The frist 24 to 48 hours I only worry about hydration and not feed intake. After 48 hours energy and fiber will also become a concern and you will need to be concerned if at this point the goat is refusing to eat hay or roughage.

Things I reach for right away to boost immune system:
Red cell if the goat is anemic looking. Oral.
Vitamin B complex injectable Can't be overdosed, B 12 helps build red bloodcells, B vitamins are produced in the rumen, so if the rumen is compromised the goat may benifit from injectrable vitamines. B vitamines help appetite as well.
Bo-se This is a RX, and it is selenium and vitamin E injectable. Can be overdosed. If my goat hasn't had a shot in a couple months, I may give them a dosage to help them out with their overall immune health.
400 Uinit Vitamin E gel caps This is the kind for humans, I cut them open and add them to a drench or just squirt one or two in their mouth.
C&D antitoxin this product is to treat overeating disease, It is not the vaccine, and it will also help boost your animals immune system and fight off bacterial infection that may try to bloom when your animal is dealing with other stress factors.
Bovi-sera serum is a group of anitibodies that is designed to boost your animals immune system and can be used in any situation were your goat is not feeling well. We have been very happy with this product and often use this and the C& D antitoxin during a course of a treatment of a sick goat.

Is the goat looking bloated? Baking soda can never hurt, although sometimes it can be tricky to get them to swallow it. Especially, if they are very very bloated and not very responsive. then tubing the goat is the safest. Mineral oil is also a good lubricant and coating for the stomach and a lot of it can be given, Several ounces at a time. This is especially helpful if the cause of the bloat is due to the animal getting into feed. Again, the trick is getting it down them with out choking them. A vet may need to be called to assist in tubing the animal. I like to add a few cc's of Procain G to the mixture to help with the bloom of bacteria from eating to much and give a shot of C&D Antitoxin which is also discussed below, to preven Overeating disease. Vaccinating your goat at this time is pointless, Vaccinations take time to build up titer levels. So instead the antitoxin is needed, not the CD & T toixoid.

Are probiotics needed? The answer to this is, yes. And Honestly should be way higher up on my list of items and things to do. I use the powdered form of Probios. Also Sav A Caf Plus electrolytes have probiotics added to it. Another great way to increase probiotics is good old fashioned yogurt, drenching with yogurt can be a good source of calories/protein and some energy for your goat who may be off feed. Add a little water, or amino acids oral solution to thin. Don't get the low calorie yougurt, get the highest calorie one you can find. This isn't the time to think "light".


Is there a reason I have avoided the actual treatment? The meats and bones of the diagnoses of your goat? Yes, It is and can truely feel like a guessing game. Is it worms? Which kind of worms/parasites? Is it Bacterial? Is it dietary? Will you all let me get away with just ending this at, "Get a fecal," and "Consult with our Vet?" At this point I encourage you to consult with your vet and get a fecal. If it is Friday at 5pm or you live in the boonies and have no Vet that will see your goat, then here are some suggestions of what has worked for us.

MY Disclaimer: I AM NOT A VET Of Any kind.

Age of the goat Age of the goat does somewhat matter.

Young kid under 2 weeks of age. More than likely any parasite load has not had time to develope and bloom. Most parasites take 14 to 21 days to become established. A scouring kid under 2 weeks of age should be treated for bacterial scours and over eating disease should be considered.
-C&D antitoxin (Not the toxoid) is the treatment for overeating disease. Can't be overdosed and is certainly a product that you should reach for when any young kid is scouring, bloated, acting sluggish, and/or running a fever. Can be given as an injection and orally or both.
-Spectam Scour Halt/Gaurd for pigs Given orally for bacterial scours. I really like this product a lot and have had a lot of success with it.
-Neomycin this is also a good product to be given for bacterial scours, It is not one that I use often. Although, our farm in general rarely has a kid scouring under 3 or 4 weeks of age.
-Baking Soda Baking soda can be given a couple times a day, to help prevent bloat and upset stomach. It tastes horrible, so I often mix it wil a tiny bit of corn syrup, and drip it into the back of their mouth.

A kid older than 3 weeks of age is very very susceptible to coccidiosis and starting to become acceptable to all the parasites that your herd is carrying.
coccidiosis This is the number one killer of young kids over 3 weeks of age and under a year old. It can affect any age of goat, but most goats over a couple years of age have developed an immunity to coccidiosis. It is found in all ruminants systems and is species specific. "Coccidiosis Blooms," another words it will reach a level that will be too high for a young goat to handle and there for affects the goat negatively. Since we are talking about scours, we will stick with that topic. But coccidiosis does not always cause scours, it can cause reduced growth rate and slowly damage the goats stomach, however it can also cause severe scours and death very quickly.
treatment is outlined very well here on BYH and treatment information can be found in the Diseases, Injuries and Cures section under gaots. Essentually, it is a treatment that lasts for 5 days and the coccidiosis can rebloom every 21 days, so often times young goats are treated every 4 weeks as a preventative.

Goats over 3 weeks are also acceptable to other parasites, such as Barberpole worms, bankrupt worm, tapeworms ect..... A fecal can help diagnose worm loads

If you do not have access to a vet or a fecal and your young goat is scouring. Our treatment is as follows. If you do not wish to do everything at one time, try one thing and see if the goat clears up in a few hours, or continues to look poor and then try another treatment. I always expect my goat to start to show improvement in less than 24 hours. I will also do some of the above mentioned supportive care depending on how weak the goat is, anemic, ect....

If you start a treatment.....Finish it, stopping in a middle of a treatment can build up resistance to that treatment.

EVerything is done on day one:(Ages 3 weeks to 2 years)
*a wormer such as Valbazene, synanthic, cydectin for 1-3 days, duration depends on my choice of wormer
*coccidiosis treatment for 5 days. (twice a day)
*an injectable antibiotic. Again, duration depends on my choice of antibiotic.
*Supportive care

Over two years of age,
*We will worm them, do not underdose our wormer.
*give them injectable antibiotics and
*Supportive care.

when I talk about supportive care , I am referring to everything involved with hydration, immune support, building red blood cells and offering increased energy when off feed.


Some of my favorite drenches for offering energy when off feed for more than 24 -48 hours. I try to get the scours under control before doing some of these. but I have never had any of these drenches cause scours.

Majic Drench
1 part Mollasses
1 part corn oil
1 part corn syrup
couple teaspoons baking soda
4 to 5 ounces at a time to an adult standard breed,


probiotic drench
yogurt(not light)
corn syrup(couple tablespoons)
amino acid oral solution to thin it down.
4 or 5 ounces to an adult standard breed.

Protein drench
amino acid oral solution
one or two eggs
Mollasses

More fiber
creamed corn added to any of the drenches or any of the individual above mentioned items. A little trickier to drench with since you have to beable to get it through a syringe.


Pretty much you can mix these in any combination and add a teaspoon or two of baking soda to the drench a couple times a day.

Notice I didnt mention Pepto Bismo or Kolin Pectin for livestock. It really isn't fair that I haven't mentioned these items. We do on occasion use them, I don't consider them a real reliable fix for the problem, if you aren't careful they will cover up the problem, but there is some benifits to using them on a severaly scouring goat. We keep a gallon of Kaolin pectin on hand and give several ounces if we have not gotten the scours stopped with in a day or so.



Okay this is a work in progress. I am sure I will read it over a few times and edit it and try to organize it. Feel free to help me with this.
 

Roll farms

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Well, since you asked...I don't have time to do an in-depth read but what pops right out at me....


Now what? not - know what. As is "Now what's wrong, I don't know what to do."

Kids are susceptible to it, not acceptable.

And you might want to scale it down...when people are freaked out / looking for quick answers, the shorter / sweeter, the better. :D
 

20kidsonhill

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Roll farms said:
Well, since you asked...I don't have time to do an in-depth read but what pops right out at me....


Now what? not - know what. As is "Now what's wrong, I don't know what to do."

Kids are susceptible to it, not acceptable.

And you might want to scale it down...when people are freaked out / looking for quick answers, the shorter / sweeter, the better. :D
thank you: I am not good at organizing. so I figure I once I have it written in front of me, I can then try to organize it some. I always notice those typos days later, AFter I have read it a dozen times.
 

Straw Hat Kikos

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I think it's good. I would fix a few spelling errors and copy it and paste it right into your page or make a new one. :)
 

DonnaBelle

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Thanks so much for posting this informative information.

Really appreciate your efforts for the rest of us...

DonnaBelle
 

20kidsonhill

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Thankyou, I really am looking for feedback from you all. Positive or negative is fine. Or just an outline of what your approach is on your farm. Even if you don't feel like you have a lot of goat experience feel free to share.

We are trying to build this thread so I can organize it and post it to help others. All help welcome.
 

elevan

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A suggestion for drenching this would be a turkey baster...rather than leaving folks wondering how the heck they are gonna get it through a drenching pipe.

More fiber
creamed corn added to any of the drenches or any of the individual above mentioned items. A little trickier to drench with since you have to beable to get it through a syringe.
 

20kidsonhill

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elevan said:
A suggestion for drenching this would be a turkey baster...rather than leaving folks wondering how the heck they are gonna get it through a drenching pipe.

More fiber
creamed corn added to any of the drenches or any of the individual above mentioned items. A little trickier to drench with since you have to beable to get it through a syringe.
LoL, i have never tried to drench creamed corn, but I always thought it was a great idea. The other drenches I have used, several times.
 

SkyWarrior

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Thanks for the drenches -- I learn a lot from you guys! :bow

I would add a comment that a friend who has raised goats for 35 years said. :old She told me that older goats who scour may have a parasite load and she found that Ivermectin seems to treat the worms plus eliminate the scours. I've used Ivermectin on my scouring doe with success, but this is just one case. :idunno

Obviously if your worms are resistant to Ivermectin, it won't be helpful, or as helpful. :hu
 

GLENMAR

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DonnaBelle said:
Thanks so much for posting this informative information.

Really appreciate your efforts for the rest of us...

DonnaBelle
x2


:thumbsup
 

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