babsbag
Herd Master
@BrendaMNgri I am sorry about the loss of your dog. Losing them "out of the blue" is gut wrenching. 
Guarding Fallow Deer?
- Thread starter LoneOakGoats
- Start date
Southern by choice
Herd Master
@BrendaMNgri I agree with all you said.
Words cannot truly express my deep sadness for your loss.
Hoping a necropsy will yield some answers for you.
Words cannot truly express my deep sadness for your loss.
Hoping a necropsy will yield some answers for you.
frustratedearthmother
Herd Master
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So sorry for your loss. Can't even imagine the shock of finding her already gone.
greybeard
Herd Master
Texas law is pretty clear on dogs chasing livestock, and in Texas, thanks to folks like Mike Hughes of Broken Arrow Ranch, the State of Texas officially recognizes exotics as livestock.
Historically, Texas was and officially still is an open range state, meaning it is the public's responsibility to fence livestock OUT. However, the State has allowed each county the option to enact a stock law, and most have, making it the livestock owner's responsibility to keep their stock fenced IN.
Unless LoneOkaGoats lives in one of about 15 counties that is still Open Range, he/she has absolutely no legal responsibility to fence dogs OUT. It is the responsibility of the dog owner to keep their dog out of LoneOakGoats' property at all times.
Not only can LoneOakGoats shoot the offending animal, so can anyone else that sees it happen, has seen it happen, or has reason to believe it is about to happen. (the dog has to actually be causing a problem--it's mere presence is not always just cause*)
Sec. 822.013. DOGS OR COYOTES THAT ATTACK ANIMALS. (a) A dog or coyote that is attacking, is about to attack, or has recently attacked livestock, domestic animals, or fowls may be killed by:
(1) any person witnessing the attack; or
(2) the attacked animal's owner or a person acting on behalf of the owner if the owner or person has knowledge of the attack.
(b) A person who kills a dog or coyote as provided by this section is not liable for damages to the owner, keeper, or person in control of the dog or coyote.
(c) A person who discovers on the person's property a dog or coyote known or suspected of having killed livestock, domestic animals, or fowls may detain or impound the dog or coyote and return it to its owner or deliver the dog or coyote to the local animal control authority. The owner of the dog or coyote is liable for all costs incurred in the capture and care of the dog or coyote and all damage done by the dog or coyote.
(d) The owner, keeper, or person in control of a dog or coyote that is known to have attacked livestock, domestic animals, or fowls shall control the dog or coyote in a manner approved by the local animal control authority.
(e) A person is not required to acquire a hunting license under Section 42.002, Parks and Wildlife Code, to kill a dog or coyote under this section.
Added by Acts 1989, 71st Leg., ch. 678, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1989. Renumbered from Health & Safety Code Sec. 822.033 and amended by Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 1002, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 2003.
* Even in cases where the dog hasn't actually been seen harassing or running the livestock, if it's mere presence causes excitability or tension in the flock or herd, courts have held this meets the standards set forth in Sec. 822.013.
I have never heard of a case where the dog owner won in any lawsuit of this nature.
Historically, Texas was and officially still is an open range state, meaning it is the public's responsibility to fence livestock OUT. However, the State has allowed each county the option to enact a stock law, and most have, making it the livestock owner's responsibility to keep their stock fenced IN.
Unless LoneOkaGoats lives in one of about 15 counties that is still Open Range, he/she has absolutely no legal responsibility to fence dogs OUT. It is the responsibility of the dog owner to keep their dog out of LoneOakGoats' property at all times.
Not only can LoneOakGoats shoot the offending animal, so can anyone else that sees it happen, has seen it happen, or has reason to believe it is about to happen. (the dog has to actually be causing a problem--it's mere presence is not always just cause*)
Sec. 822.013. DOGS OR COYOTES THAT ATTACK ANIMALS. (a) A dog or coyote that is attacking, is about to attack, or has recently attacked livestock, domestic animals, or fowls may be killed by:
(1) any person witnessing the attack; or
(2) the attacked animal's owner or a person acting on behalf of the owner if the owner or person has knowledge of the attack.
(b) A person who kills a dog or coyote as provided by this section is not liable for damages to the owner, keeper, or person in control of the dog or coyote.
(c) A person who discovers on the person's property a dog or coyote known or suspected of having killed livestock, domestic animals, or fowls may detain or impound the dog or coyote and return it to its owner or deliver the dog or coyote to the local animal control authority. The owner of the dog or coyote is liable for all costs incurred in the capture and care of the dog or coyote and all damage done by the dog or coyote.
(d) The owner, keeper, or person in control of a dog or coyote that is known to have attacked livestock, domestic animals, or fowls shall control the dog or coyote in a manner approved by the local animal control authority.
(e) A person is not required to acquire a hunting license under Section 42.002, Parks and Wildlife Code, to kill a dog or coyote under this section.
Added by Acts 1989, 71st Leg., ch. 678, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1989. Renumbered from Health & Safety Code Sec. 822.033 and amended by Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 1002, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 2003.
* Even in cases where the dog hasn't actually been seen harassing or running the livestock, if it's mere presence causes excitability or tension in the flock or herd, courts have held this meets the standards set forth in Sec. 822.013.
I have never heard of a case where the dog owner won in any lawsuit of this nature.
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- Thread starter
- #15
LoneOakGoats
Loving the herd life
First off, I would NEVER get a dog to guard deer without doing tons of research. I have owned LGD for several years. No I did not train them, I did my homework then & spent the time to get a good match. They guard my goats. I spoke to the dog owner about electric fencing at least 2 months ago. The electric wire needs to be on their side of the fence, so I can't just install it without their permission. The reason I asked the question is simple. I'm just trying to cover all my options and decide what would be the best way to proceed from here. Homework is exactly what I'm doing. I would never simply jump & get a puppy or adult LGD to guard my deer. I research before I act. I had never heard of deer being guarded by LGD and was wondering if anyone had. I knew if anyone had heard of it, this would be the place to ask.
I do own a gun and I know how to use it. I have talked to the owners at least 5-6 different times about their dogs. My deer are in the barn at night. Both attacks happened just after lunch. We have pipe fencing 5 1/2 feet tall, with pipe railing on top. That still didn't stop the dog from climbing over once and digging under once. I'm well aware of the time, money, effort, and love involved with LGD. (You left out love
) I have filed and have copies in hand of the police reports. Again, just covering my bases here. I would never take my Anatolian away from the (his) goats. OK, I think I coved it all this time.
Thank you for your input and help to all that replied.
I do own a gun and I know how to use it. I have talked to the owners at least 5-6 different times about their dogs. My deer are in the barn at night. Both attacks happened just after lunch. We have pipe fencing 5 1/2 feet tall, with pipe railing on top. That still didn't stop the dog from climbing over once and digging under once. I'm well aware of the time, money, effort, and love involved with LGD. (You left out love
) I have filed and have copies in hand of the police reports. Again, just covering my bases here. I would never take my Anatolian away from the (his) goats. OK, I think I coved it all this time. Thank you for your input and help to all that replied.
Southern by choice
Herd Master
First off, I would NEVER get a dog to guard deer without doing tons of research. I have owned LGD for several years. No I did not train them, I did my homework then & spent the time to get a good match. They guard my goats. I spoke to the dog owner about electric fencing at least 2 months ago. The electric wire needs to be on their side of the fence, so I can't just install it without their permission. The reason I asked the question is simple. I'm just trying to cover all my options and decide what would be the best way to proceed from here. Homework is exactly what I'm doing. I would never simply jump & get a puppy or adult LGD to guard my deer. I research before I act. I had never heard of deer being guarded by LGD and was wondering if anyone had. I knew if anyone had heard of it, this would be the place to ask.
I do own a gun and I know how to use it. I have talked to the owners at least 5-6 different times about their dogs. My deer are in the barn at night. Both attacks happened just after lunch. We have pipe fencing 5 1/2 feet tall, with pipe railing on top. That still didn't stop the dog from climbing over once and digging under once. I'm well aware of the time, money, effort, and love involved with LGD. (You left out love
Thank you for your input and help to all that replied.
Those of us that know you and remember you know that is what you were asking, that is why I left it at that.
That sure is a pickle of a situation!
How big is the enclosure?
What kind of dogs are these?
NH homesteader
Herd Master
So... From a relative newbie on the site... Is this an appropriate time to say whoa... You have deer? Lol
What do you keep them for, meat?
This is an interesting conversation, although a stressful situation for you.
What do you keep them for, meat?
This is an interesting conversation, although a stressful situation for you.
- Thread starter
- #18
LoneOakGoats
Loving the herd life
SBC, the enclosure for the deer is 3 acres. The dogs are pit mix. She removed them & so far they are still gone. I'm praying it stays that way.
NH homesteader, lol, yes I have deer. They are fallow and are just the sweetest ever! I bottle raised our Callie, she wore diapers in our house when she was a baby, slept in a play pen at night in our den.
She is 10 1/2 years old now. She was attacked both times, and thankfully, is going to recover this time.
NH homesteader, lol, yes I have deer. They are fallow and are just the sweetest ever! I bottle raised our Callie, she wore diapers in our house when she was a baby, slept in a play pen at night in our den.
She is 10 1/2 years old now. She was attacked both times, and thankfully, is going to recover this time.
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Southern by choice
Herd Master
Glad they haven't come back around but smart of you to keep being proactive.
That is so sweet. I am glad she will recover.
What is wrong with people? Geesh. You would think they would have no problem with wire on their side... do they realize they may end up with dead dogs.
I am a dog lover and would never be quick to shoot... but IF attacking my livestock- different story!
That is so sweet. I am glad she will recover.
What is wrong with people? Geesh. You would think they would have no problem with wire on their side... do they realize they may end up with dead dogs.
I am a dog lover and would never be quick to shoot... but IF attacking my livestock- different story!
NH homesteader
Herd Master
Aww that is sweet! I hope you're able to keep them safe!
