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Having to get 3rd LGD for my puny 5 acres!

Discussion in 'Livestock Guardians' started by Ridgetop, Jun 4, 2018.

  1. Jun 10, 2018
    BrendaMNgri

    BrendaMNgri Loving the herd life

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    Yeah I had to wonder about it too :frow this is THE only place I have ever seen Anatolians referred to in that manner. o_O
    @Ridgetop glad you came around and are getting that third dog. You are beyond needing it!

    As for the "you only need x number of dogs on x number of acres" line: the Spaniards in Spain say it best.
    You know you have enough dogs when you stop losing livestock. There is no set answer, ever. I see people saying
    stuff like "you factor x acres in with such and so predators and voila" there is your formula. My ass!
    And as for the Ft. Knox fencing stuff: I have it here, THE fence of all fences. I still had two strange dogs over a period of a few years
    somehow get onto my property. They were killed immediately by my dogs. How did they get in? I will never know how they managed.

    The older I get, the longer I do this, the more I realize the laughable folly of saying something is always set in stone.
    Nature does not work that way. She'll come around and show you who is boss every time LOL.
     
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  2. Jun 10, 2018
    Ridgetop

    Ridgetop Loving the herd life

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    You are right - always be flexible! If one thing doesn't work try another! AND if something has worked up to now, decide what has changed and adjust again.

    We didn't have any problems after getting Rika and Bubba until after the fires this year. We even left the sheep out a couple nights last year and no problems. I am in agreement, you rarely see the dogs work if they are doing their jobs. The true test is - have you lost any stock? Since I know my dogs have been working hard, and I have not lost anything up to now, the only answer to why I am losing stock is - not enough dog power for the number of predators currently in the neighborhood. So, the answer to that problem is another LGD!

    My formula: Price of dog divided by 10 working years, multiplied by annual cost of dog food and vet bills = annual cost lots cheaper than losing livestock and sleep!! Their additional value as burglar protection (do you know what burglar alarms and security companies cost these days?) and the pure enjoyment of having them around - worth every penny and more! :love Love and loyalty!
     
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  3. Jun 10, 2018
    BrendaMNgri

    BrendaMNgri Loving the herd life

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    Glad you are doing it. :clap
    And do not ever think that "just because" we "only" have 5 acres, we "can't have" predator issues.
    Not hardly.
    I have seen so many smaller homesteads, farmsteads,
    and hobby farms/ranches with 10x's the predator issues, losses, challenges, than some bigger, commercial outfits or places running on 100's
    of acres or more. Size of your place has nothing to do with it.
    If it is sitting smack in the middle of heavy loads of predators, you are going to have challenges. No matter the size of the outfit.

    Let us know when your new arrival comes.
    I'm familiar with the Lucky Hit guy, although he does show his dogs heavily he obviously has some good lines going for guarding, too.
     
  4. Jun 11, 2018
    Ridgetop

    Ridgetop Loving the herd life

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    I will post some pix of the new puppy when we get her. I will also try to get some good ones of my other 2. I am attaching an old one of Bubba when he was younger, and Rika also young.

    Actually, Erick has different partners who show the dogs for him. He is really only interested in their working capabilities. However, he knows that correct conformation is more important for working dogs than show dogs since correct structure is what ensures that they have a long successful working career with the livestock. Strictly show people tend to downplay the reason for good structure, but as all people with working breeds know, the standards were all established with reasons for the structural qualities behind them. Any working dog (hunting, LG, herding, etc.) needs structural correctness or they will fall apart in the first couple of years. The standards were originally established to provide a guide for soundness and structure. Since then, they have been "tweaked" by those who want just show dogs without caring about the original purpose of the breed.

    The reason Erick showed his first couple of dogs was to prove to the "fancy" that a good working dog must have structural correctness behind it. Now he has partners in other states who show them if they want. His sole interest is breeding good working dogs. He also only breeds 1 litter a year anymore, preferring to train his dogs. He disapproves of the current show people because in order to get an Anatolian with a soft enough temperament to go in the breed ring and be handled by strangers, Erick feels that they are breeding a dog that will not be sharp enough to protect against human predators as well as animal ones. We showed Bubba a couple of times at 18 months, but he growled in the ring so we retired him. Several of the well known Anatolian people (Marilyn Harned for one) said it was his age (teenagerhood)and he would outgrow it. She also said he was one of the nicest dogs she had seen in a while. We might take him back in the ring at 4 years old, but I am not interested in finishing him or studding him out. In fact, I want to neuter him eventually. Bubba is magnificent and could finish, but I have finished enough champions in my time, and know the expense for a couple of ribbons and cheap trophies, not to mention the backbiting and politics! I am older now and don't need to prove my dog's worth to anyone. Also, while Bubba is off being confined in a large X-pen at a show, the other dog has to work twice as hard! Just not a pleasure for me anymore and I don't think LGDs are a breed that enjoys shows either. Many breeds do but not my LGDs - they want to be with their sheep.

    Rika about 18 months IMG_1072.JPG IMG_0586.JPG Liver mask


    Bubba at 14 months 20170221_152819.jpg 20170221_152815.jpg
    Blask mask

    Bubba at a show and not liking confinement in an Xpen but being sooooo good - showing not our thing any more!
    Wastes too much time and Bubba can't figure out why he is not home with the sheep. Traveling too stressful for him too.
    He was about 12 months here, going to first show to see how he would behave and meet the handler...so good but not enjoyable for us anymore.

    Bubba 2.jpg IMG_3319.jpg
     

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  5. Jun 11, 2018
    Ridgetop

    Ridgetop Loving the herd life

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    OOPS! I attached too many - I need practice with posting photos! :idunno But I am doing great with imogees! :thumbsup
    LOL!
     
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  6. Jun 11, 2018
    Latestarter

    Latestarter Novice; "Practicing" Animal Husbandry Golden Herd Member

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    No such thing as "too many" pics. :D:clap Thanks for sharing your story/background and they are both awesome looking dogs!
     
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  7. Jun 12, 2018
    Ridgetop

    Ridgetop Loving the herd life

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    Thanks. They do have such sweet faces. Amazing how those sweet loving expressions can turn ferocious when they feel danger is threatening their sheep or us! You wouldn't believe it is the same gentle dog that allows the grandchildren to crawl all over them! It is amazing how boisterous Bubba can be outside (still a little puppyish) but how totally calm and quiet they both become when they come in the house at night for family time. Sadly, too many coyotes right now so they won't come in at all. In fact Rika has been in the sheep pen each morning with the sheep for the past week. She can get in the 8 bar round pen where we are keeping them while breeding, but Bubba can't (too big now). Sleeping with them must mean she is worried about the coyotes getting up here on top of the ridge! I think we really do need the 3rd Anatolian. Even though it will be a puppy which they will have to protect it will grow fast. Puppy will have to be trained by all of us but anything good is worth the work.
     
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  8. Jun 12, 2018
    Wehner Homestead

    Wehner Homestead True BYH Addict

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    Wondering if you are actually going to need two more??
     
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  9. Jun 12, 2018
    Baymule

    Baymule Herd Master

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    Both are beautiful dogs. You are getting pretty good at posting pics!
     
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  10. Jun 12, 2018
    Mini Horses

    Mini Horses True BYH Addict

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    I am of the opinion that bringing the herd to "safer" containment at night is a huge help for the LGDs. Sorry your have these issues but I love the Tolis.

    Right now, I am worrying about ONE fox and my chickens. The price of bullets is less than a Toli. Not as much love but, works.