Heifer calf with rabbit-like poo pellets?

[amysflock]

All,

I thought we'd had bunnies in the paddock with the cows until I saw Annabel (8 weeks old) produce a bunch of dark brown, rabbit-like poo pellets.

What is causing this, and do I need to worry/do anything about it? Everyone else's poo looks like cow patties as it should. They've all been eating haylage for the last two weeks, and Annabel has been nursing from her mama still (Bridgit, the mama, gets a bucket of soaked beet pulp, some alfalfa pellets and grain each evening, as does our other mama, Sheila, although Bridgit's is richer in alfalfa and grain than Sheila's is).

Thanks!

 

[Thewife]

Are they like Rabbit pellets or like Elk pellets?

 

[Farmer Kitty]

My opinion, she's not gettng enough protein. Plus, a calf that young shouldn't be getting hayledge. She should be getting grain and once she's eating 5-6 pounds a day you can add baled hay.

 

[Thewife]

My opinion, she's not gettng enough protein. Plus, a calf that young shouldn't be getting hayledge. She should be getting grain and once she's eating 5-6 pounds a day you can add baled hay.

Every now and them we get one or two that leave behind almost Elk like pellets. I was told it was a salt/mineral thing?
None of them showed any sign of sickness or lacking anything, so I have always just made sure the blocks were more accesible to the calves?
My calves are on mamas milk and hay, no grain.

 

[Farmer Kitty]

I asked DH, who has worked in the feedmill for 30+ years, and his opinion is the same as mine. She could try one of the suggestions and if that doesn't work try the other.

I am really concerned about calves that young eating the hayledge too. Their stomachs are developing and I have to worry about that hayledge becoming a problem.

 

[wynedot55]

i would try giving the calf a 1 or 2 lbs of feed.if you could.an see what that does to her poop.calves really dont need hayledge till they are 4 months old.

 

[allenacres]

Since this calf is a beef calf, who has always nursed from her mother, which is the MAJORITY of her diet, and she has an upset system, it makes absolutely no sense to me to feed her grain. If her system is upset from a dietary change, dont go further and change her diet more. The majority of her intake is her mothers milk, nothing else.

She is getting PLENTY of protein nursing from her very healthy mother.

Farmer Kitty, you raise Dairy cattle and they don't nurse from a cow, thus the reason you would need to grain feed your calves. These are beef cattle that are left with their mothers. The mother can and does provide all that the calf will need nutrition wise. They do not need grain nor IMHO is it good for them. (Grass fed beef is so much healthier than grain fed beef but thats a whole nuther topic) Reading all the crap that is in grain, one of the MAIN reasons why many of us raise our own beef, I would never feed it to cattle. I dont even feed my horses grain, other than pure oats, if needed to suppliment. Way too much sugar and fillers in grain. Bleck!

After the first 24 hrs a calves stomach changes, thus the reason its useless to give a calf colostrum after the first 24 hrs. After the first 24 hrs, they can eat anything and they do, including tasting the dirt in the pasture, some manure, etc etc. They are curious calves that lean by sticking that little tongue out and tasting things. Their stomachs and guts can handle this after the first 24 hr because their stomach has changed. Doesnt mean they will continue to eat dirt or manure, but if they do eat or drink anything besides their mothers milk it wont hurt them. And this info is directly from my vet, and a conversation I had with her.

If this calf has a dietary upset, from her mothers milk changing because HER diet changed, then I would guess that the hayledge was richer in protein than her normal diet, and thus the milk was richer and either that upset the calf's system or the cow produced more milk, because of the free feeding of hayledge and thus the calf pigged out. I dont know but they are possibilities. Most likely her system will correct itself.

 

[Farmer Kitty]

I've been told by several vets and feed guys, that it doesn't matter whether they are beef or dairy as to when their stomachs all develop. And they change for a lot longer than the 24 hours your stating. They have 4 stomachs or stomach parts depending on how you look at it. They all develop at a different time in the calf's life-thus my concern about her eating hayledge. At 2 months old I would imagine she is eating more and more solids, even as a beef calf, but, as I stated before I'm worried that it is hayledge due to the compacting in her stomach.

Here's an explanation I found in a cattle book on their stomachs.

Cows stomachs
1. The Rumen - this is the largest part and holds upto 50 gallons of partially digested food. This is where the 'cud' comes from. Good bacteria in the Rumen helps soften and digest the cow's food and provides protein for the cow.
2. The Recticulum - this part of the stomach is called the 'hardware' stomach. This is because if the cow eats something it shouldn't have like a peice of fencing, it lodges here in the Recticulum and cause no damage to the cow. Also, the grass that has been eaten is also softened further and and formed into small wads of cud. Each cud returns to the cow's mouth and is chewed 40-60 times and then swallowed properly.
3. The Omasum - this part of the stomach is a 'filter'. It filters through all the food the cow eats. The cud is also pressed and broken down further.
4. The Abomasum - this part of the stomach is like a human's stomach and is connected to the intestines. Here, the food is finally digested by the cow's stomach juices and essential nutrients that the cow needs are passed through the bloodstream. The rest is passed through to the intestines and produces a 'cow pat'

Do you realize you can have grain specially made to how you want at a feed mill? You don't have to put all that sweet stuff or the other garbage that some premade grains have in them. I know this because we do it.

 

[kstaven]

Although it was stated from several different perspectives on calf rearing and feeding. The common thread I have to agree with is this is a rumen upset caused by dietary intake. Not all breeds or individual calves develop exactly the same way or as quickly. What one will tolerate at that age another may not.

Best to take this calf back to moms milk and maybe a little dry hay, and not fermented hayledge. If the rumen is in anyway slow in developing in this calf then the hayledge or grain will be slower to digest and thus ferment in the rumen causing an upset.

 

[allenacres]

I never said a calves stomach does not continue to change after the first 24 hrs, I stated "After the first 24 hrs a calves stomach changes".


And you would never give a calf, or any animal, grain if you thought they was"compacting in her stomach" or impaction somewhere in their system. You would give them mineral oil.

And by 8 weeks of age the Rumen has greatly increased and a calf can certainly handle other feeds besides milk, and should be, but I still would not feed a beef animal grain as it is not necessary. Feed good quality hay and if you cant get good quality hay supplement them with some alfalfa.

Yes I do know you can get custom milled grains, as we have a nearby mill. But for this one mill there are at least five feed stores, if not more, within a 20 mile radius. That mill is not very busy but the feed stores are very busy.