Help with mating alpacas

[username taken]

well, last night she spat at him when I first put him in the mating pen, but she didnt run and she lifted her tail up, so I encouraged them to try a bit longer. he wasnt all that interested in her after she spat at him, but, after pushing him over to her a few times, he got interested, mounted and woo hoo she sat down for him.

But, he couldnt figure it out again silly boy I guess it had been too long and he forgot LOL

So tonight will try again, hopefully he gets it this time.

Then tomorrow night is 7 days for Thelma, so we will test her.

Interesting stuff.

Oh, a question.

I have heard, that for maiden alpaca females, you sometimes have to break the hymen before the male alpaca can do his bit. Is that right? Is that something I should be doing with Louise before I put her with Kerry tonight? I didnt do it for Thelma ...

Oh, also I'm a sucker. I went out yesterday afternoon, to the breeder who I got Thelma and Louise from, because he had some mini horse colts, and I need one. So I went out there to pick out and buy a colt. Well. I got a colt. But I also bought two alpacas LOL 'Panda' is a 17 mth old black girl, with a white face and then black markings round the eyes that make her look like a panda bear. 'Harlequin' is a 6 yr old girl, she is brown although she has almost like a roan colouring over the top of the brown, kinda like frosting all over her. She has a white face and then a roan blaze down the middle of the face. Very very pretty.

So I guess Kerry has his work cut out for him over the next few weeks, and we are gonna have plenty of babies

 

[ksalvagno]

Yes, new breeders are that way.

No, you don't have to break the hymen. I never have. I'm sure every once in a while you get that problem breeder who does need a hymen broken but I never have.

Congratulations on your new alpacas. I'm sure you will enjoy them.

By the way, I never let a male penetrate more than 3 times. Alpacas are one of the roughest breeders and can do a lot of damage. If you have bred them 3 times and the female is still going down, then it is time to get the vet out and spec check and ultrasound to see what is going on. Many times there is an infection going on or a retained CL.

Of course you get the double whammy with having a new breeding male who could be shooting blanks but it is easier to rule out an infection or retained CL before testing sperm.

 

[username taken]

thanks for that, its really more that he is just missing. He probes all over her sides and back end but doesnt find him goal ...

 

[samplekasi]

Yes, new breeders are that way.

Many times there is an infection going on or a retained CL.

OK please do not laugh I do not have, breed or even thought about alpacas..............ok recently just a twinkle of a thought because I want to get into fiber but....................... what the heck is CL?

 

[ksalvagno]

The corpus luteum (Latin for "yellow body") (plural corpora lutea) is a temporary endocrine structure in mammals, involved in production of progestogen, which is needed to maintain the endometrium.

 

[username taken]

Okay now I am even more confused.

Last night at 7 days, Thelma sat for him. And allowed him to mate her.

What gives? I thought she wasnt supposed to do that, regardless of her pregnancy status??

Also last night, even though I had told the handlers not to test Louise, they did and so she was mated again by Kerry. That would make three goes in a row for her.

 

[ksalvagno]

Well, Thelma may have gone down just because. If she is more submissive, the more submissive may go down every time the male tries to breed her. There could be a funky cycle going on. Maybe you caught her on a low day of being receptive and now she is at the proper point in her cycle. See what she does at day 14. Normally they will not go down at 7 days but you get that female that does do it every once in a while. If your females are maidens, sometimes all bets are off. I prefer to see them not go down at 7 days but wait for the 14 day mark to see what happens.

As far as Louise, you probably hit her 3 days that she would be receptive. They don't know they are pregnant for a few days so they will go down. I only like to let one good breeding happen per cycle but some people do 2 breedings per cycle. Just test her in 7 days from last breeding and see what happens. At least she did go down for you.

I'm sure you know with the goats and sheep that anything can happen with breeding and sometimes the females just don't read the book.

 

[username taken]

thanks oh yes, some of them like to chew up the rule book thats for sure

can you give me the reader's digest version of an alpacas cycle?

 

[ksalvagno]

Basically it is a 14 day cycle and they are willing to breed in the middle 3 days. Pretty simple.

Here is a llama gestation chart that some people use. http://www.mountlehmanllamas.com/CriaDueDate.html

When they give birth, I don't breed back until they are at 21 days. Some breed back at 14 days but I think it is a bit hard on them and they need a few more days to heal from birthing.

 

[anniebananie]

I've been successfully breeding, birthing, and raising alpacas for three years now, I have palled around and helped several well-known alpaca vets (in my area), and I'm planning on becoming a camelid vet when I graduate.

Everything I've heard up here, from every vet I've ever met, says you should almost never breed a female when she's under 18 months of age. Some large production farms will breed their girls at 12 months, but because the females put so much of their energy into growing their own baby, if they aren't fully grown and large, they will be stunted for the rest of their lives. I've seen this happen, and know of a couple people who bought girls from large farms who have been cursed with babies with small birth weights because they were bred for the first time at under 18 months. I generally wait until 2 years to breed both my males and my females (although it's not such a big deal with males-- as soon as they're able to without harming themselves, put those bums to work!).

Young males can indeed be a pain, but I know several older, experienced males who also have trouble hitting the mark. If I were you, I'd be a bit more hands-on when breeding them, as if you let him stumble around on his own for too long, debris and hair can get on his phallus and possibly injure him, or get messed up when he finally does hit the mark. Some males are skittish about being helped, but once they figure out that you're actually assisting them, they seem to relax.

As for your female being receptive at 7 days; from my experience, this isn't really that unusual. Females who have been left open (not pregnant) for a year or more and especially maiden females often have some trouble getting pregnant the first time. Most girls will have a hormonal flux in the first few days that tells them that they're pregnant, and will spit off. Then, the hormone flux fades, and they figure out that they're not really pregnant, and they start cushing again. Other girls are just so ready to be bred, or submissive, or have such a subtle hormonal flux that they continue to be receptive. It's normal, and you really can't tell if your female is pregnant until at least 3 days post breeding, more likely 7-14.

There's really a lot of controversy regarding breeding animals, from what I've learned. I heard from one vet that with more experienced females, a breeding in the early morning and a brief breeding at night on the same day can get your female pregnant for sure, as the second ensures that she ovulates. However, I only recommend this one with caution, and with a fairly gentle and not overly aggressive male. I had another breeder tell me she bred them every 3 days. I don't recommend this personally. Others tested/bred their animals once every 14 days. With maidens, especially smaller girls, I would recommend the once every 14 days method, especially if you have time and don't absolutely have to have your girls bred all at the same time. Not only is it easier on the girls, but it's easy on the boy, too (everyone gets tired, I suppose!). I have another older girl who seems to do excellently when I breed her twice in a day, and then wait a week and test her. Pregnant every time, and she has never had any trouble whatsoever.

Pacas can be tough to predict because their cycles are so very subtle. If your females seem to still be open after 4 or 5 breeding attempts, they are all well-nourished, and the male is well-rested (3-5 days between breedings), I would call your local camelid vet. They may have, as stated above, retained CL's, progestrone/estrogen production problems, infections, or any number of other things. Don't give up hope though, and good luck! We're expecting our fourth cria crop this July, two crias out of our own stud ATRS Lead Zeppelin and his two "girlfriends", Chiara and Querida. Best of luck!