How long to leave the ram in with the ewes?

[mysunwolf]

Hi all, I've been doing quite a bit of research on this but wanted to double check with some real live people!

Most sources I've found say the ram needs a minimum of 30 days to do his job with the flock, but that 60 days is when you should take him out (I can't remember why my resources kept saying that it was important to remove the ram after the ewes were bred--maybe because he will bug them by continuing to breed them?).

I've also read about teaser rams, but I think my farm (4 acres) is too small for the kind of separation needed, plus my ewes glanced my ram a few weeks back and now 2 are cycling (I think?).

The ewe lambs may or may not be cycling yet, it's very hard for me to tell, since they only seem to show puffiness, redness, tail raising, mounting, and general excitability for about a day at a time. So that's confusing.

The ram lamb is about 8 months old and looking nice. When he first met the ewes he showed some interest in them, but now is settled in with his wether friend and completely ignores them through the fence. Is there still hope that his interest will improve once he gets up close and smells them?

My (sort of) wether almost has more testosterone than the ram and would make a great teaser, at least to get the ewes excited enough to show the ram how its done. He has shown great interest in the ewes.

ACTUAL THOUGHTS ON BREEDING: We want to start Oct 15th for March lambs and take the ram out Dec 1st (we are actually butchering him around that timeframe). I would like to put the wether with the girls Oct 1st in order to get them exciting for breeding (not necessarily to match up their cycles). I want to put the ram in with the adult ewes first on Oct 15th so they can show him how breeding works before introducing him to the ewe lambs.

Sorry for the info overload and pointless background. I'm confused about all this because I've never talked to anyone about how it's done! Thanks for any tips and ideas about breeding.

 

[Ruus]

I'm going to put my rams and ewes together Oct 1, and leave them in until Dec 1. Like you, I have an operation too small to keep the ewes out of sight/sound/scent of the rams. The ewes are plenty excited about breeding just from "talking" through the fences. The mature ram is driving himself crazy trying to get to the girls, but the ram lamb is behaving much like yours. I'm told with ram lambs sometimes it takes actually getting their noses in a hot ewe's pee for them to get the idea.

Ewes are usually only in heat for about a day at a time, so your girls sound normal to me. (I have one girl who acts like she's in heat All. The. Time. but I'm pretty sure she's the exception!)

If by "sort-of wether" you mean a ram that has his testicles but is not fertile, I'd worry about him attacking the ram lamb once they were with the ewes, or at least stopping your ram lamb from breeding.

With my mature ram, I have to take him out when the ewes have settled because he doesn't take rejection well. He gets frustrated and will start bashing the ewes into the walls and fences when they stop cycling. The little guy is pretty easy going for the moment, but I'm not counting on his sweet personality surviving the breeding season intact. :-/

 

[norseofcourse]

Another reason to take the ram out after 60 days is so that your lambing isn't too spread out - it makes it easier to time vaccinations, feeding changes for different stages of pregnancy/lactation, weaning, etc, if the lambs are closer in age.

I have a very small operation (one ram, three ewes), so I left my ram in with the girls all winter. Two ewes were bred within the first two weeks he was in with them, and the third (ewe lamb) bred 6 weeks later. With so few, managing things wasn't hard, but those six weeks waiting on Brosa to lamb seemed to last a year! LOL

I got my ram as a ram lamb last year. He showed absolutely no interest in the ewes, even through the fence. However, as soon as I put him in with them in November, he immediately realized "Hey, I'm a RAM!" and turned stupid for awhile Leaving him in with the ewes was harder on him than on the ewes - he acted stupid long after they'd been bred, and they basically ignored him. If an ewe isn't in heat, she won't let a ram breed her.

 

[mysunwolf]

Thanks Ruus and norse!!

It's so good to know that my ram lamb is not acting unusual by not breaking down the fence to be with the ewes. And who knew they were only in heat for 1 day you'd think in all my reading that would've come up...

I think I'll put the wether with the wethered goats all in a separate pasture from the ewes and ram, because the wether does still have testicles (an accident).

Both of you provided really good reasons to take the ram out after 60 days, so I think I will. Do you think having him in there for 45 days is not enough time to make sure my three ewes and four ewe lambs will get bred?

 

[Ruus]

60 days is enough time for most ewes to cycle 3 times, thus three chances to get pregnant. 45 is long enough for about 2 cycles for most of them. Most good ewes bred to a fertile ram should settle on the first or second breeding, so 45 days should probably be enough.

You'll notice I'm using "most" and "should" and "probably" a lot, that's because animals don't always read the textbook and behave accordingly.

 

[SheepGirl]

Here's how breeding works here at my farm...

On October 5, I move the ram (fitted with a marking harness, I might add) into the field with the ewes. I mark down the days when the ewes are bred (based on the marks on their butts from the marking harness). Seventeen days after ram turn-in, I change the color of the crayon on the marking harness. Again, I mark down the days the ewes are bred...also noting if anyone was re-bred. The crayon is changed once again seventeen days after the previous crayon was changed and the ram is kept with the ewes until 2-4 weeks before lambing starts.

ETA: Ideally you would leave the ram in for 34 days to cover two heat cycles on the ewes. Then take the ram out and cull the ewes that don't lamb and choose breeding stock born in the first 17 days of the lambing season. Don't leave the ram in longer than 34 days because that encourages an extended lambing season. I have been fortunate and all my ewes breed on their first heat, including ewe lambs. However I do change the crayon on the marking harness every 17 days 2-3 times just to be sure everyone is bred and I can catch re-breedings if they happen.

I have been keeping my ram with the ewes after breeding to make feeding and watering of the sheep easier in the winter (especially going through snow and dealing with frozen water buckets; it's easier to just deal with one).

However I do separate the ram from the ewes just before lambing so that way the ewes aren't bothered by the ram while they're lambing and also I have seen rams (of different breeds/crosses and ages, as well as from different farms/sources) ram into lambs...not like how ewes ram into lambs to tell them they can't steal a drink from them, but I-want-to-hurt-you kind of ram.

 

[Baymule]

Your "sort of" wether sounds like he could be a future problem. Any type of half castrated male animal can be dangerous. Maybe, you should take him to the butcher when you take the ram. If you want a wether, it might be best to start over on that with a fully castrated non-accident animal that would be a lot safer to be around, both for you and your other sheep.

 

[norseofcourse]

Do you think having him in there for 45 days is not enough time to make sure my three ewes and four ewe lambs will get bred?

For the ewes it should be. For the ewe lambs, maybe. I put Elding in with my girls last year on November 10. The ewes both bred on their first heat. The ewe lamb didn't get bred till the first few days in January. Now granted, she was on the small side and probably didn't come into season till she'd grown enough. If you ewe lambs are in good condition and a good size (I think I remember reading somewhere you want them 75 or 85 percent of their adult weight?), I'd say they're more likely to get covered in that 45 days.

 

[mysunwolf]

Yep, the wether is definitely going to the butcher with the ram, as well as two ewe lambs who are not growing fast enough.

norse, very interesting about the ewe lambs--I think mine are a good size (minus the two we are culling). I have heard that it helps to use an older ram over young ewe lambs, so I was sort of hoping that the adult ewes would show him how it's done, and then he could use his newly learned skills on the young girls

I think we're going to stick with 45 days and hope that the ram can get his job done. Once I stick him out there, I'll be on the lookout for breeding.

Does anyone know if sheep are shy breeders like cattle?

 

[mysunwolf]

The ram went in with the ewes today... so I found out for myself that sheep are NOT shy breeders.

As soon as he went into the pasture with the girls, he beelined straight for the oldest ewe and bred her many, many times over the course of today. Does that mean she was in heat today? Or do they breed even when not in heat?

The ram and wether followed the others into the barn tonight like they'd been doing it all season. I guess I'll know for sure in the spring when everyone was bred