How old is too old?

[quiltnchik]

I have a 24-year-old QH mare out of the King line. She's had 3 foals previously (none since I've owned her), her last about 7 years ago. Is it safe to breed her next spring? I'd love to get one more foal out of her, but don't want to do anything to jeopardize her health. Also, if it is safe, would it be best to do live cover or AI? Any and all suggestions are appreciated

 

[goodhors]

I would have the Vet out to look at her now. See what he finds now, to even continue with thinking of breeding. Then
have him out again, probably early Feb, March, to give her a full breeding evaluation. She will be 25yrs next spring,
and things can change fast (fall to spring) in such mares. I know horses have had foals at her age with no problems, but you are taking
a risk. "She ain't what she used to be" will certainly apply here, with each older mare a case on her own. If you accept
the risk of losing her, then you can continue. I know several old mares who foaled fine, no issues. Know some other old
mares who had problems and then died during or after foaling. Lost the foal too. People cried after, but they KNEW mare was old, better
chance of losing her than a younger horse. Two were maiden mares at 18 and 20 years old!! Me? I felt REALLY sorry
for the horses having such stupid owners.

I hate to generalize with older horses. No two are the same in reaction to things.

The evaluation should include uterine fitness, swabs for infection, looking at her overall condition and fitness of muscle. We
have a 25yr old mare who looks about 15yrs, works the 6 and 8yr olds into the ground, but would not carry a foal even if we
could get her bred. Vet was not encouraging when we wanted to breed her at 15yrs, said the uterous was rated poor, so she
would probably lose any foal. She had a foal at 10 years, EXCELLENT horse, then husband preferred to use her instead of
breeding for a couple years. We lost that window of opportunity to ever get another foal from her. Too bad, that foal of
hers is a terrific horse, wish we had 5 more like him! Turned down some awful good money on him, husband loves using him
for ourselves.

With waiting, you will have time to choose a stallion to use on her. If this is her last blast, you want any foal to be better
than both parents. Don't want to use the local stallion of no distinction, cheap stud fee. And while I love AI, not all stallions are equal in
semen quality, older mares (over 8yrs) may be difficult to get in foal. You will want a breeding expert to work with if
you do go AI. AI gives a wider choice of stallions, but farm/ranch needs to be good in collecting, extra good in packing and
shipping to get the semen to you in usable shape. Some stallions are just more fertile than others, or ship better. You need
to KNOW THIS! Frozen is harder to deal with, fresh chilled seems to be the most commonly used. Some places are just
better at this semen handling than others when your specialist calls for a shipment. Know that there may be added expenses
with multiple shipments and collections, returning containers. READ your contract and all the fine print details. What will
you do if stallion is at a show when you need a shipment? My stallion owner listed his shows so we knew when he would be gone.

Then with mare evaluation rated "good", your stallion choices information, you make your "Final Choice" and sign the contract, send
the money. Start early in the season, to get a schedule of how mare works. Sometimes synchronizing follicle and cervix in early season
can throw things off. Our mares liked being bred late, July and August. NOTHING you could do with drugs changed that. Drugs actually
shut one mare down from cycling until Dec. again, lost that year. They are NOT the norm, but it was THEIR normal, so you had
to work with it. Got touchier as they aged, so just saying it is possible with your girl. We did get nice foals, just came late for
foals around here.

 

[goodhors]

Not sure you are current with QH problems, but several severe issues have developed with so much inbreeding. You will
want to ask if stallion choices have been tested for these before using them.

The Impressive lines have Hyperkalemic Periodic Paralysis, or HYPP, where horse stiffens up and has seizures.
HERDA is another, attributed to Poco Bueno lines with information on both here:

http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/hrs10688/$file/hypp_and_herda.pdf

Another more recent one is GBED (GLYCOGEN BRANCHING ENZYME DEFICIENCY). This article seems to hit on
a number of the inherited problems.

http://www.equinechronicle.com/health/genetic-diseases-in-quarter-horses-and-related-breeds.html

Kind of a "Curse those popular stallions" because everyone wants to use them, their get win! Then the blood
is into almost all lines, spreading the problems as numbers of "winners with the blood" increase. And with
Paint and Appaloosa Associations allowing cross-breeding, the bad stuff contaminates those breeds as well.

So you will need to run some pedigree checking on mare and stallions chosen, to decrease chances of inbreeding,
even if stallions test negative. She could be a carrier. Sorry about being bearer of bad news.

 

[quiltnchik]

Not sure you are current with QH problems, but several severe issues have developed with so much inbreeding. You will
want to ask if stallion choices have been tested for these before using them.

The Impressive lines have Hyperkalemic Periodic Paralysis, or HYPP, where horse stiffens up and has seizures.
HERDA is another, attributed to Poco Bueno lines with information on both here:

http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/hrs10688/$file/hypp_and_herda.pdf

Another more recent one is GBED (GLYCOGEN BRANCHING ENZYME DEFICIENCY). This article seems to hit on
a number of the inherited problems.

http://www.equinechronicle.com/health/genetic-diseases-in-quarter-horses-and-related-breeds.html

Kind of a "Curse those popular stallions" because everyone wants to use them, their get win! Then the blood
is into almost all lines, spreading the problems as numbers of "winners with the blood" increase. And with
Paint and Appaloosa Associations allowing cross-breeding, the bad stuff contaminates those breeds as well.

So you will need to run some pedigree checking on mare and stallions chosen, to decrease chances of inbreeding,
even if stallions test negative. She could be a carrier. Sorry about being bearer of bad news.

The stallion's pedigree is here:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/quincys+man+joseph

And my mare's here:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/swf+bandits+taco

Thanks for the info

 

[goodhors]

Looks like lots of old-time horses, used as more aged animals to produce the next generation. Only saw
one set of linebreeding, on the Hancock side far back. Funny to see those old names, they were the advertised
stallions in magazines when I was a kid! Everyone wanted those lines in their horses!! All the bulgy muscles,
not the Greyhound look of modern QH's.

So it looks you should be good on avoiding the problems named, none of those lines in either horse to speak of.

 

[michickenwrangler]

At a small ranch I used to work at, the owners purchased a gorgeous strawberry roan APHA mare that was 24 years old and carrying a foal. When she foaled the following spring (at age 25) she gave birth to a big colt that just drained her physically. She lost a lot of weight and couldn't keep up with the nursing demand of her colt. He was later "adopted" by another mare while his dam recovered.

Just food for thought.