I hate cheaters!!

[swiss.susan]

We took our steers in to the county fair yesterday and I noticed a holstein feeder there, correction, it's a maine cross I know it is. Now I didn' t bring any feeders this year so I'm not just being a poor sport. I hate it when people cheat! That is a dairy barn and why is 4-H so important to parents? If winning is so important they need to take thier butts to an open show where a win means something. I was talking to the dad ( yes, civily) and he asked me if I thought he would make weight to be in the feeder steer class. I said I would be more worried about trying to pass off a maine cross than I would about weight and he thought it hysterically funny. No denials. The show is tomorrow, can't wait to see if it fly's.

 

[manybirds]

We took our steers in to the county fair yesterday and I noticed a holstein feeder there, correction, it's a maine cross I know it is. Now I didn' t bring any feeders this year so I'm not just being a poor sport. I hate it when people cheat! That is a dairy barn and why is 4-H so important to parents? If winning is so important they need to take thier butts to an open show where a win means something. I was talking to the dad ( yes, civily) and he asked me if I thought he would make weight to be in the feeder steer class. I said I would be more worried about trying to pass off a maine cross than I would about weight and he thought it hysterically funny. No denials. The show is tomorrow, can't wait to see if it fly's.

so its a maine/holstein cross? if its part dairy and its a good judge it probably won't fly at least. if its feeder dson't that mean they market it off? i feel bad for the person who bids on it and spends there money on it only to find its more bone and less meat than they wanted.

 

[goodhors]

Our 4-H Market animals were weighed as they arrived. Weight is posted on
the sign over their heads. So if the Prospect Beef, 500# and under (feeders), doesn't
make weight, the kid knows before his animal gets stalled. Steers have to start weight
at 900# or you can't sell at Auction. Beef breeds have a lower weight to start than
the Dairy breeds of steers. If the feeder size animal is over the 500#, they
can show, but not sell it at the Auction. There are often some VERY SMALL animals
in the Prospect Beef classes, which can be fine with small children showing them and
managing them well. Kids are not required to sell the small ones if they don't want to.

Breed doesn't really matter, all our 4-H classes are shown as a Beef or Dairy animal,
then by weight. Crossbred could go either way, exhibitor chooses. Not really possible
to "cheat". Cattle Board might come up with a request to change, if something quite
obvious was going on.

This particular Fair is 4-H or FFA, kids are 19yrs and under. No open classes for anything.
Space is limited, not really any room for expansion. I think they get about 200 head of cattle
in to show, with Prospect, Steers and Dairy animals. Horses usually have about 150 showing.
Very nice and friendly Fair, which we have enjoyed over daughter's 4-H career.

Everything in showing depends on your local Fair Rules. If breed or crosses show in
their own classes, get mixed together depends on the rules. Having shown at various
Fairs myself, it does seem like a LOT of Fair rules are made to prevent certain behaviour,
favor others. They were written AFTER someone made other folks angry, so they didn't want it to
happen again! Exhibitors NEED to read the Fairbook, get ALL the details spelled out
clearly for understanding.

Unwritten rules can't be enforced, though good Sportsmanship type things are "expected" of
people. Part of the 4-H way of doing things for good experience and learning. Everyone
can't get first, which is a big lesson to learn for a kid. Sometimes hard work will pay off, the
practice and preparing an animal can get you first in Showmanship, even if you don't win
the Steer or Dairy cow class. Our various 4-H Leaders were a huge help in daughter learning
the correct way to show various species and do well. Very encouraging to all the kids, who were
willing to put in the practice needed in working with their animals. You can TELL BY LOOKING who
has done their homework over summer, by how well the animal responds in a strange place,
ring conditions that are upsetting.

 

[kfacres]

does it say that you must be purebred dairy.

 

[swiss.susan]

yes, we have two separate barns, one dairy and one beef. They don't show together or even on the same day. All steers in the dairy barn must be 100% dairy. Our weight rules are also different, 750# and under is a feeder and they are allowed in the auction.

 

[kfacres]

yes, we have two separate barns, one dairy and one beef. They don't show together or even on the same day. All steers in the dairy barn must be 100% dairy. Our weight rules are also different, 750# and under is a feeder and they are allowed in the auction.

does it state that in the rule book? Can you post a copy of that rule book, in all my days of showing, and in the 40 some odd county fairs that I used to attend to show at in a summer-- I don't ever remember seeing it stated that they must be purebred.. and I read every fair book cover to cover almost.

 

[swiss.susan]

sure can, I will do it as soon as I locate one. It does't say purebred tho, it says it must be 100% dairy. Can be a cross between any dairy breed. So your dairy beef show allows beef breeds, or beef crossbreds?? Now that's something I'v never seen, otherwise it wouldn't be a dairy beef show

 

[swiss.susan]

You showed in 40 counties?? Here in Indiana, you can only show in one for 4'H. It doesn't have to be the one you live in, but it can only be one.

 

[swiss.susan]

go to this website www.in.gov/statefair/fair/contests/files/dept403(r2).pdf



This is the Indiana State fair rule book. Says for both market and feeders, must be 100% dairy blood. I never said purebred.

 

[kfacres]

I showed in the 4H show in three counties. In IL, you can join, belong, and show in as many counties as you want- as long as you follow their rules-- which usually means attending a certain number of meetings each year. You can only collect premium money in one county though. Matter of fact, I was also on the Federation in two counties. ( I would be willing to bet money that IN is the same way). I also showed at three state fairs each summer (IL, IN, IA), plus two national shows (Louisville and the All American). Not to mention, hitting and consigning to 4 or 5 show/ sales each year as well.

In my prime of showing, I would hit 30 county fairs a summer, and show in the open and junior shows both of multiple species usually. The fair books always had open, junior, and 4H in them-- so I would read each county's just to see what all was going on there, to help make my county better as they all respected my opinions since I traveled quite a bit more than anyone else. At many of these counties, I would also get roped into helping show for the many friends I had. The rules stated that someone of age had to be in the ring-- and so I was one of the only other people there, not showing myself, or of age. We always traded favors quite a bit. I at the time, was getting paid working and trimming for people outside of IL at state and National shows pretty regularly, so you could say I was a professional-- in a 4H'ers body age group.

During, and after i graduated college from being on the judging team, I also began judging many county fairs and officiating judging contests... I then became a supt. at our county fair, until my job forced me to relocate.

So, yes you could say I've been to a few county fairs.

PS, the link you provided me with- is from IN State Fair, not your county fair. Even though most county fairs choose to follow the rules set forth- most do not actually state such is a rule-- it's more hearsay... and as has already been stated above- you cannot enforce a rule that is not stated in writing.

In our county fair, we have a dairy bottle bull calf class- must weigh under 200 pounds or so, don't remember exactly what the weight is. All feeder calves have to show against each other, regardless of breed- beef or dairy. A feeder calf at our fair is anything under 800 pounds. We do not have a separate division for dairy fat steers either. Now, with that said, I have been to plenty of fairs that show the dairy and the beef steers separately- which is probably the right way to do it. I have never seen anywhere state that the dairy steers must be 100% dairy blood, nor have I seen anywhere state the same for beef steers. It's a vocal rule-- something not in writing which cannot be expressed.

if someone had a dairy/ beef steer-- which many do-- my family for one-- since we breed all of our dairy heifers to Red Angus bulls-- then what do they show in? Can't show dairy, can't show beef, so discriminant against them and tell them they can't show? It's just as 'unfair' as you say it to show in the dairy, as it would be in the beef?