I think I have a mineral-deficient goat on my hands.....

freemotion

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OK, experienced goat people, I need help with this one.

I have had minerals available to all my goats and keep it clean. They eat it up in the usual spurts, leaving it for a while, then over a few days, cleaning it up. I check it regularly and empty it if it is untouched for a few days or if the weather is damp for a few days.

The mineral I used for a long time (Purina) is no longer available in my town, but I bought what the feedstore had....the tag is gone now, but I believe it was Poulin. It was a large bag.

It is not red. It is gray.

One of my pygmy-x's did not get pregnant in spite of living with the buck for over two months, and having conjugal visits with him for 2 or 3 cycles before that.

Now I see some hair loss around her shoulders, and coppery hair on her legs. She is a very black goat.

She is around 7-8 years old (a guess, she is a rescue, I've had her for maybe 6 years. She was next door for less than a year before that, was smaller than she is now, and had a single, healthy buckling while living in gross neglect next door. She came to me all but feral.)

The more I read, the harder it is to decide what to do to correct this situation. I am thinking both selenium and copper deficiency, maybe? Why so suddenly after all these years? I wonder if it is the new bag of minerals, purchased last summer/fall. This would mean everyone else is deficient, but she is the only black goat. The others are cream, grey, and multi-colored but with tan legs. No one else has the hair loss.

Due to family circumstances, I have been caring for her after dark all winter, and other family members have been covering daytime chores. With the longer daylight hours, I was shocked to see the changes. She has been acting ok, so nothing caught my attention, other than the surprize that she wasn't preggers. The hair loss at first seemed like fast shedding, as everyone here is losing their undercoats, and she has always been a bit ratty-looking while shedding.

So, do you think I should bolus, inject, supplement, or what? What brand and where do I get any product you may recommend?

Don't say get the vet out, I might as well just put a match to a pile of hundred dollar bills here. We have cat/dog vets and show horse vets. Nothing in between. Although they have shown themselves more than willing to take my cash in exchange for their lack of knowledge and experience with goats. Grrrr.

OK, I think I covered all the details. Now tell me what I should do.
 

ksalvagno

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For Selenium, I would get BoSe from the vet. It is injected SQ, 1cc per 40 lbs. That would be the fastest way to get Selenium into her and there is something about needing vitamin E for absorption of the selenium which BoSe has in it.

Not sure what is best for the copper but I know it is a bolus. Here is a link that I saved for bolus'ing copper. http://www.goatspots.com/copper.html
 

cmjust0

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freemo said:
The more I read, the harder it is to decide what to do to correct this situation.
What's hard about it.. Here, just take a look at this diagram and everything should just fall right into place.

mineralrelationships.jpg


:lol: :gig :lol:

Seriously...this is why mineral deficiencies are so difficult. Seems everything plays off everything else.

If the goat's not had a Bo-Se shot in, say, 6mo and she looks mineral deficient...give her a shot of Bo-Se @ 1ml/40lbs. If you want to get some copper in her, give her a copper bolus @ 1g/22lbs.

Yes...1g...as in, 1000mg.

You'll read around about people giving it with bananas and marshmallows and all kinds of kooky stuff, but the reality is that you need to repack it into gelcaps and ram'em down her throat. If she chews the copper, it's useless.. Chewing changes the particle size and specific gravity, so instead of lodging in her GI, she poops them right on out.

I'm pretty blase' about copper bolusing at this point.. I know it probably scares the crap out of you because you don't want to send one into an acute hemolytic crisis or whatever, but...well, it's copper oxide. Copper oxide is, like, near-zero in terms of bioavailability. I personally know some folks who shove a whole 12.5g calf bolus down every goat in their herd once a year -- kids and adults alike -- and haven't had a problem yet.

And as for the Bo-Se...some folks do it once a year, some twice, some every three months.. Some folks do it every other month. I personally think that while Selenium toxicity is probably no fun to deal with, the risks of Bo-Se injection are probably a wee tad bit overstated.

I got my last Bo-Se for like $10 from the vet...a whole vial of it. And the Copasure COWP boluses were like $40 from Valley Vet. The cool thing there is that you get enough to treat almost 7000lbs of goat, and it's metal...while there technically has to be some expiration date on the package, there's no actual expiration. Copper can't really expire. :)
 

helmstead

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Has anyone every considered her age as a factor with the fertility?

Is she balding around her eyes? If not, it's probably zinc, not selenium that she needs. Thing is, zinc interferes with copper absorbtion...LOL

If you've not needed to use copper or BoSe in the past, this is more likely age, blowing coat, maybe even a parasite you're not seeing. I have a producer friend who moved from MA to the SE not long ago (couple yrs maybe) and had never had to copper or BoSe until she moved...so I'm kinda thinking you aren't in dire need.
 

()relics

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...I may have missed something and I know this is the organic section....But...could there be an external parasite problem? I mean...you know...It is the perfect time of year for a lice infestation...If I see any of mine with hair loss thats always what comes to my mind...So naturally, or not, I treat with some Ivomec...Just saying...I'm never sure on my own animals that I see every day so I try to eliminate causes 1 at a time...and I start with the parasite thing...If that doesn't clear it up then its on to the next possible cause...JMO
 

freemotion

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OK, it is all so, so clear now!!! :p

I didn't think of external parasites because she does not seem itchy....and she is with the buck who is fine. Except he is mostly brown, so copper deficiency discoloring wouldn't show. I'll run another fecal on her asap and inspect her closely for lice tomorrow.

Could be her age for the not preggers thing....I was thinking some low-grade infection....do goats get chlamydia and such? But she has been strong and healthy since I got her. She was not really underweight then, as I didn't tell the guy who owned her that his goats had pushed an opening in his back fence and they went into my woods for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I also fed my horse close to the fence so they could reach through and get her hay in the winter months.

Interesting about the friend who moved from MA.....was she in Western MA, do you know?

I forgot to add, stress could be a factor, since I plucked her from her long-time companion and shoved her in with the buck, and the two Princesses Chunk call forelornly to each other through the fence. They always slept on top of each other. I wonder if the stress is a factor.
 

cmjust0

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freemotion said:
I wonder if the stress is a factor.
Here's something I found interesting.. Sheep can live for years with enough copper in their livers to kill them. And then, one day, then they get stressed out.. When they get stressed out, the liver dumps copper into the bloodstream.

Poof...sheep dies from acute copper toxicity.

That always made me wonder if goats worked the same way.. Like, perhaps a goat stores copper in the liver and releases bunches of it under stress, depleting its reserve.. Then one day, there's no more copper to release and you start seeing copper deficiency....stress-related copper deficiency.

Purely speculative, of course, but...well, I dunno. That's why I called it "interesting" instead of "helpful."

:gig
 

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