I'm another victim.....please help if you can!

[NYRIR]

First, I want to apologize as this will be a lengthy post, but I greatly appreciate anyone who reads and responds to the best of their ability!

Now,What I mean about being a victim; is I am a victim of my own stupidity! Like so many people, I have gotten into goats with almost no knowledge having NO IDEA they require a delicate balance of feed and minerals. I got the first two early spring...loved them so much I wanted to get a buck(after some consideration), then realized the buck(Nubian) should have a buddy....so went to get a wether and got begged to PLEASE,Please,Please take a set of brothers(of course, really cute!!) so they wouldn't have to be sold for meat :/ (she gave me two bucks 1/2 Alpine and 1/2 Nubian for 50.00...total)So, we then realized we needed to castrate one as having TWO bucks is going to be smelly enough!.....did that with a (controversial) banding tool.Along with that, the three of them had recently had a bout of Lungworm, but she had given the first dose of meds for that and we gave the second.So altogether I have 2 Bucklings, one Wether, 1 Alpine doe, 1 Nubian doe, and one Kinder doe.

Here's the reason for my post= I recently got my 3rd female goat( the Nubian doe) a couple weeks ago. I had bought two early this spring, a one year old Kinder and a recently weaned Alpine.Both does.The Kinder is doing magnificently well except for not knowing if she was bred or not.(I was informed she had been running with bucks when I bought her)She is now quite large, but I am not sure if that is just good rumen development, fat, or pregnancy~When I got her she was thin,wiry haired and not as well,.."spunky"... we'll call it. (B-O-S-S-Y ;-)

The Alpine I got had a cough, and I was told it was "nothing....some goats just do that." I had both her and the Kinder on grass hay(24-7 access), sweet goat 18 % about 1 cup each two times a day, fresh water 24/7, free-choice baking soda, and a mineral block (red). They NEVER use the block....ever, it is not wet, peed on or anything wrong with it...they just don't use it.

After doing some research, I realized my Alpine was not growing right.She had NO SYMPTOMS except for the coughing.It was a dry cough.I wormed with Ivomec 1 % injectable orally at 2 cc's for the Kinder and 3/4 of a cc for the Alpine...she is 20 lbs soaking wet!She was still not growing.....at all.So after more reading....I bought goat minerals. She has been eating quite a bit of these, and already in a weeks time her coat looks more creamy colored....the cough is gone but she still is really small. After yet MORE reading, I thought....maybe she has a tapeworm?Although, I have seen no evidence of this... So Valbazen is on order right now from Jeffers, along with 180.00 worth of other stuff.I just gave her the second dose of Ivermectin 3 days ago....when should I do the Valbazen? Also, do you think she is stunted? The woman assures me she is a pure Alpine....

Ok, so back to the goat I just got. She's a registered Nubian doe, 4 years old. She is in milk and had twins this spring. I was told by her owner she gives 6 cups sweet goat 18% (same as mine)per milking. This is what we were doing....BUT....my husband accidentally gave her an additional 6-8 cups last Tuesday. Well, by Wednesday...she had scours and was not doing well at all.Her symptoms were, lethargy,heavy breathing,scours, some grunting,teeth grinding, off feed and water,and disinterest in anything.I don't know if she had a fever as I had no thermometer at the time(we do now!)I did not know what had happened, so I gave her some Pen G and started reading....again...anyway, I ended up taking her off grain, and giving her just grass hay and water(she ate/drank none). I gave her Pen G every day along with a shot of vitamin b complex, and 10 grams of Probios powder (the first day and 5 grams each day since)mixed with a small amount of electrolyte water and syringed it into her. I have been offering her fresh leaves and at first she would not eat even those.Thursday she started shivering....so I was researching again...and thought..."milk fever?!" so I gave her some Tums crushed up with a tiny amount of Molasses and some Vitamin water.I also made her get up and walk a couple of minutes two times a day.I have no idea if she is deficient in minerals but she will not eat the loose minerals yet.I am hoping as she improves she will show interest as it has done a lot of good for the others.
It has now been 4 days and she is finally eating some hay again! Yay~ She is starting to get pill poops again.She had been wormed with Ivomec once but I held the second dosing 10 days later as she was really sick and I did not think it was from worms or parasites.When can I redose her? She is eating again but now she has a line of thinning hair on her back only along the spine(no signs of lice/parasites and really no itching)....probably from stress? So I don't want to tax her body even more....I stopped milking but once every other day as she was not producing anything to speak of...how long before I can start her on grain again?And how much to start?

Here is what our feeding plan is now....3/4 grass hay and 1/4 Alfalpha hay free choice. Baking soda and loose minerals free choice. Mineral block free choice( just in case the Nubian will use it)Sweet goat 18% about a cup twice a day for the non-milking does, a cup once a day for the wether and the 2 bucklings, and 6 cups per milking session for the milkers. Everyone will get probios sprinkled on the grains.In summer we will offer plain water and one bucket of vitamin/electrolyte water.Also, we bring them fresh leaves.

I am including a list of things I currently have or are on their way...I would love it if someone could tell me what I am missing....our plan is to have 2 milkers(we will be keeping the Nubian and getting another Nubian), 2 bucks and the wether.( I know we don't NEED that many boys, but what was I to do?! )We will be breeding and selling the kids off in the spring after they are weaned.The Kinder and the Alpine will be sold for pets if I can manage to part with them!

I have/will have in a few days...
CD Antitoxin
Tetanus Antitoxin
Bio-Mycin 200
Ammonium Chloride Soluble Powder
Pasteurella Vaccine
Calcium Gluconate
CD&T Vaccine
Pen G
Hoof and Heel
Iodine
Goat Minerals
Baking Soda
Syringes
Needles(different sizes)
Corid
Blu-Kote
Gloves
Vet wrap
Triple Antibiotic ointment
Python Dust
Vitamin B complex
Probios powder
Vitamin/Electroytes for water
Thermometer
Stomach tube
Funnel
Drench gun
Shears
Hoof Trimmers
Milk Stand (we built it from Fias Co website plans)
Homemade udder wash of Iodine/water
Milking Bucket
Wet Wipes (we use these for many reasons)
Puppy pads (for any birthings)
Clippers (for removing does hair when about to kid)
Disbudding Iron

And eventually, I'd like a Hobbler for my "Spunky" Kinder

These goats are awesome but....they are going to worry me to death!Good thing I don't give up easily and don't mind a challenge... Any advice from experts or long time goat owners is appreciated Thanks for reading!

 

[Pearce Pastures]

Please forgive me for this, but I am not sure what all your questions were. If you have a chance, could you type them up list style?

I would say as far as the feeding program you have, it sounds good but I'd nix the baking soda.

How did they know it was lungworm? I ask because this usually requires a special test and I am curious as to if they did it.
Also, how old are the goats?

 

[20kidsonhill]

okay, I would say that the young alpine doe is probably dealing with parasites and coccidiosis, especially coccidiosis. and yes it can stunt them as adults. Best way to tell is to get a fecal done.
The other doe that is lethargic and scouring, could also be a worm load, but also could be overeating disease form stress of a change in her home or change in diet.
Have they been vaccinated with CD&T?

I wouldn't assume the coughing was due to lungworms. Lungworms really aren't that common. I would be more likely to assume a respirtory infection.

 

[NYRIR]

Sure,
When can I put the Nubian back on grain and how much at a time? Could her hair loss be stress related?
Here is a pic of Heidi..before she got sick...she is 4 years old

The Alpine....is she permanently stunted? And what else can I do to assist any more growth?
Here is a pic of her this week...she was bought weaned in May this year at about 2 months old...she is now roughly 6 months old...and probably weighs 20-30 lbs.

Here is a pic of her in relation to Heidi...who is a pure Nubian and a bit small for her breed I was told.

The Kinder was sold to me as a year old( she has 2 big teeth in the center of her gum, the others look smaller.......they said she had kidded but that does not make sense to me her being a year and already had kids?? Anyway, she has gotten really fat and I am just not sure if she is pregnant or not??
This is her under the feeder on the left....

And another pic of her....

And one more....

Here is the Nubian buckling...he is a little over 3 months old...

Here are the Wether and his brother...they are 3 months old...and getting bigger than the Nubian who is a bit older......

As for the Lungworm...it was diagnosed by their vet...and she gave me the treatment but I cannot for the life of me remember what it was called......

 

[NYRIR]

okay, I would say that the young alpine doe is probably dealing with parasites and coccidiosis, especially coccidiosis. and yes it can stunt them as adults. Best way to tell is to get a fecal done.
The other doe that is lethargic and scouring, could also be a worm load, but also could be overeating disease form stress of a change in her home or change in diet.
Have they been vaccinated with CD&T?

I wouldn't assume the coughing was due to lungworms. Lungworms really aren't that common. I would be more likely to assume a respirtory infection.

I have treated with Ivermectin...and the cough is now gone...she has NO scours....and otherwise shows no symptoms....she's just tiny. I have Corid on hand...should i treat her for Cocci anyway?

The Nubian was only sick AFTER my DH gave her too much grains....she is doing MUCH better now....except for the hair loss right along the spine...I also used Python dust on them last week too....just to try and stave off the flies...

Yes, everyone has been CD&T vaccinated, wormed

 

[20kidsonhill]

Your alpine doe looks protein deficient and very wormy. I would say she for sure can be improved on, but will never be as big as she could have been. So Yes, I think she is stunted.

I would like to ask you about your grass hay. What kind of hay, which cutting? first or 2nd? how often do you bring it home?

 

[20kidsonhill]

okay, I would say that the young alpine doe is probably dealing with parasites and coccidiosis, especially coccidiosis. and yes it can stunt them as adults. Best way to tell is to get a fecal done.
The other doe that is lethargic and scouring, could also be a worm load, but also could be overeating disease form stress of a change in her home or change in diet.
Have they been vaccinated with CD&T?

I wouldn't assume the coughing was due to lungworms. Lungworms really aren't that common. I would be more likely to assume a respirtory infection.

I have treated with Ivermectin...and the cough is now gone...she has NO scours....and otherwise shows no symptoms....she's just tiny. I have Corid on hand...should i treat her for Cocci anyway?

The Nubian was only sick AFTER my DH gave her too much grains....she is doing MUCH better now....except for the hair loss right along the spine...I also used Python dust on them last week too....just to try and stave off the flies...

Yes, everyone has been CD&T vaccinated, wormed

?Did you say you also treated her with Penn G? or was that just the doe with the upset stomach?

 

[NYRIR]

Hmmm..protein deficient? Wormy? I used the Ivermectin so she shouldn't have worms except maybe tapes, right? Or am I way too confused from all this reading? lol.....
She gets 2 cups a day of 18% sweet goat...the hay is from a farmer up the road and we buy about 20 bales at a time....It is some type of fescue...I really don't know much about it other than it has some weeds in it...and they seem to love it...
I also bring them fresh leaves as I have no pasture....
Also, the others are growing fine on it...but...she is from a different farm....

 

[20kidsonhill]

You need to either get a fecal done on her, the small one, or go ahead and treat for coccidiosis and use a good wormer on her. And repeat in 21 days, 3 times in a row.

Valbazene should be done three days in a row. and the most common dosage recommendations that I am seeing at this time is 1 cc per 25 lbs.

 

[NYRIR]

okay, I would say that the young alpine doe is probably dealing with parasites and coccidiosis, especially coccidiosis. and yes it can stunt them as adults. Best way to tell is to get a fecal done.
The other doe that is lethargic and scouring, could also be a worm load, but also could be overeating disease form stress of a change in her home or change in diet.
Have they been vaccinated with CD&T?

I wouldn't assume the coughing was due to lungworms. Lungworms really aren't that common. I would be more likely to assume a respirtory infection.

I have treated with Ivermectin...and the cough is now gone...she has NO scours....and otherwise shows no symptoms....she's just tiny. I have Corid on hand...should i treat her for Cocci anyway?

The Nubian was only sick AFTER my DH gave her too much grains....she is doing MUCH better now....except for the hair loss right along the spine...I also used Python dust on them last week too....just to try and stave off the flies...

Yes, everyone has been CD&T vaccinated, wormed

?Did you say you also treated her with Penn G? or was that just the doe with the upset stomach?

No, she has never had Pen G...only the doe with the bad stomach issues....she had a dry cough that went away with one dose of the Ivermectin...