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Is SafeGuard wormer safe for my pregnant doe?

Discussion in 'Everything Else Goats' started by Susyr22, Feb 6, 2013.

  1. Jan 12, 2019
    Hipshot

    Hipshot Loving the herd life

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    Thank you GW I will check this out . So to add a little more the deworming . Their dosage levels. I used the Ivomec and the safeguard together on the two young bucks that came with the flock .Both were stunted and undernourished One didn't survive the treatment . The other is thriving . I must say I like the liquid drench method of deworming . Trying to guess how much paste to give the goat just worries me .Also a thirsty goat will drink the safeguard mixed in a small amount of water right down . But I have always preferred tube deworming to paste . You know your getting he meds where they need to go . That would be my biggest pro on using liquid Safeguard labeled for goats . It mixes easily with water . And then the bottle babies and some more new bucklings.With ther skinny momma. Baby Girl just had to go with me to see the little Buckling my wife calls Oreo. BARBER POLE 5.JPG Baby girl and black boy.JPG BG an new buck.JPG ginger and her twin bucklings.JPG
     
  2. Jan 12, 2019
    Southern by choice

    Southern by choice Herd Master

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    Yes the "newest" protocol is 2 classes
    The "experts in the field" use to say rotate dewormers but then years later they said that was a bad idea and you do not want to do that.

    You should always have an accurate weight before giving any medication of any type to an animal. We invested in a livestcok scale years ago. Cost $300. We use this all the time. ALL THE TIME! We monitor kid weights, rut weights, pregnancy, when we do any deworming, giving any supplements like copper and BoSE, redcell.

    As far as the last part of working in one region or not... this always irritates me. There are many Boer farms and many goat farms around me- all swear that Safeguard doesn't work... lots of vets (not all but many) say it doesn't work... Fiasco Farm says it too.... UMMMM usually things don't work because the animals were raised with improper use, then people don't quarantine so they dump resistant parasites on the land and there ya go. People are really just getting proficient at breeding resistant worms because of lack of proper use.
    No weights
    wrong dosage
    No quarantine
    No fecals
    No refugia
    No follow up
    Guessing the goat has worms yet never checking before treating

    Often when people learn how to use Safeguard (empty stomach, proper dodage and follow up) they find it does work.
    We do not do a complete empty stomach- we have dairy goats. They are milking, they need to eat, but we do fast for a period of time.

    The issue with aggressive treatment on a very ill animal is the likelihood of death. It is in much data that no one seems to pay attention to. :\
    Then the death is chalked up to parasites.. well... yes and no.

    I look at it from this perspective- If the animal is on deaths door then really you don't have much to lose by going about it gentler and with support to the system. At least there is a fighting chance. When they are super infested and they are hit hard they rarely make it through treatment. We have seen where people hit hard with dewormers (sometimes doing the 2 dewormer treatment at same time) and the goat wasn't in bad shape- it is just that is what they read so that is what they did and then their goat goes down and is now in a critical condition.

    I am of the opinion that anytime you need to give a dewormer there should be supportive care given.


    Your pictures make me so happy! :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate

    :weee:weee:weee
     
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  3. Jan 13, 2019
    greybeard

    greybeard Herd Master

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    No one makes fun of ditches or those that dig them when the water is approaching their front door...
    Ain't nothing wrong with that either.
    :)
     
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  4. Jan 13, 2019
    Hipshot

    Hipshot Loving the herd life

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    I really need a scale . I better start looking . I can't guess goat weight . Figured that out when I sold some young small goats . I was off by ten pounds on every one . I come here and learn more than vet can tell me at a cheaper price . I have no doubt that the dewormer killed the goat .I knew I was taking a chance . I have had friends lose horses to deworming .So it happens in horses too. If blood worms can cause colic they can cause death . Most horses that colic as a result of parasites ,if saved will die at a later time from the colic . Once dead tissue doesn't come back to life. If the infestation is sever the lesions are large and who knows what the effect of the poison will have on them . I Haven't dewormed the does yet . except the one that was down , and her only with safeguard . I've just been trying to get more weight on them . That alone is a struggle .As for the young bucks they were going to die if I didn't do something anyway . Food was just mostly going through them .So I weight guessed and didn't do fecals . Bad bad shepherd I know :hide However the second little buck has a full stomach for the first time since I got them :celebrate
     
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  5. Jan 13, 2019
    Southern by choice

    Southern by choice Herd Master

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    You were in a very serious situation and IMO you did great and all you could do.
    With goats I prefer using redcell as support - can't use in sheep.

    Look at - https://shop.smithcogoatandsheep.com/products/400lb-scale
    on sale right now :)
     
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  6. Jan 13, 2019
    Mike CHS

    Mike CHS Herd Master Golden Herd Member

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    That is the scale that we have and love it.
     
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  7. Jan 17, 2019 at 8:52 PM
    Hipshot

    Hipshot Loving the herd life

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    Goes from bad to worse . Little buckling went cold Tuesday morning . Got him warm he will not nurse a bottle . We realized he has lice , as does the whole flock:barnie bathed him with Adams dog shampoo .I think I killed all the live adult lice . He was drinking the bath water. He will nibble grain drink water from a tuna fish can . He won't drink milk from the same can. About to try a regular baby nipple. to see if he will nurse from that .Force feeding is a pain . If he will not nurse a bottle tube feeding will be next .He is holding his own . Three days on antibiotic shots, didn't like the way his lungs sounded .Figure at least two more days. Maybe bath again tomorrow for the lice . Picked up Permethrin 10 for the rest, if the rain will stop long enough to get them treated . Lice :sick Oh well what's one more problem ? :lol: So is there a better way than spray and head sponge for the Permetrin ? Right now I wishing I had a good ole dipping tank. I could say I'll never buy with my heart again but that would be a lie.:hide
    Picture didn't come through . Or was it a link ?
     
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  8. Jan 17, 2019 at 9:09 PM
    greybeard

    greybeard Herd Master

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  9. Jan 17, 2019 at 9:33 PM
    Southern by choice

    Southern by choice Herd Master

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    What anti biotic does the vet have you using?
    I would be giving this guy Red cell- Just My Opinion.
     
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  10. Jan 17, 2019 at 9:44 PM
    Goat Whisperer

    Goat Whisperer Herd Master

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    Cylence is a really good product for mites/lice. You apply it along the spine and the goats won’t get chilled. I prefer Cylence over premithrins in the winter for this reason. I don’t remember the dose but SBC probably has it in her notes.
     
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