Is this coccidia? UPDATE on fecals- HIGH STRANGENESS.... PLEASE LOOK

[Pixie Dust]

Pixie's poos are now clumped together berries! Progress! Obviously the sulmet was having some positive effect. Got the Albon from the vet and dosed at about 4 pm today. Won't know the effect of that until it gets through the system.

Is the digestive system really 72 hours? Trying to determine how long it takes for the meds to show a positive result and which meds are most effective.

There is no doubt that this is cocci.

We have a rogue groundhog that may be the culprit. I've never killed a living thing, but I may have to in this case. Incidentally, tomorrow is Groundhog Day. I've owned a gun for 20 years. Never fired it. Don't even have bullets. Someone suggested bubble gum to kill groundhogs. Some recommended throwing an M80 into its den. All seems so incredibly cruel. They are truly sweet vegetarian creatures. We've captured and rehomed over 30 raccoons this year. Easy to catch raccoons. Groundhogs are a bit more intelligent.

So, I have to ask... how much time have each of you spent staring at goat bottoms on the average? This has become my new hobby.... tentatively staring at goat bottoms anticipating the consistency and viscosity of the impending poo... have you ever noticed how much goat tails/bottoms look like little old men in anoraks ( parkas). There must be a pictorial there somewhere....Perhaps the cover of National Geographic? " The Secret Lives of Goat Bottoms"...sorry.... days of interrupted sleep, getting up every three hours to ensure that my little goatie girl is still kicking. Waking up in the morning, stressed out, going to the shed before doing anything else.... Peeking in to find.....ah, she's ok. She's eating, wagging her tail.. whew... where is the coffee. When was the last time I ate? Neurotic? Absolutely. Worth it? Without question. There is nothing more connected to Gaia than caring for the creatures that were designed and implemented to maintain balance. We are lucky, aren't we? Even in the worst of times, these creatures are a blessing.

 

[Pixie Dust]

Giardia and Crypto are separate tests that have to be done. Run about $50 a piece. I would really get that fecal in to the Ohio state lab. If you don't mind spending the money, have them do the giradia and crypto too. Probably even salmonella wouldn't hurt either.


My experience with crypto and giardia is with alpacas. It doesn't seem to spread but can't say that it won't. It has always been caught quickly for me so really didn't have a chance to spread. I really suspect that they are more oportunistic with animals that immune systems aren't as good.

I would go and buy actual tubes of Probios from TSC. Then give her 10g per day once a day for at least a week. I would probably just give it to her daily until you are done with meds.

Thanks Karen!

I have the TSC "goats prefer pro-bios". The yogurt was an attempt to put some actual nutrition into the gut as well. Pixie was a bottle baby from the breeder. No comparison between her general health and Domino's ( our kid from the spring who nursed naturally) In your experience, do bottle babies tend to be more delicate? Incidentally, Domino is more docile and naturally friendlier than Pixie. She's a lover. In my limited experience, the one on one attention from us was much more beneficial than removing her from her mother for feeding to force loyalty via the stomach. From what we have observed, its about regular interaction versus the hand that feeds it. Of course, our experience is limited, but the person to whom we donated the bucklings ( now wethers) states that the boys are the friendliest goats she has ever seen.

Per the breeder, Pixie was "yanked" at birth and put on cow's milk. I am not sure that she ever received any colostrum. Would it be a crazy endeavor to give her some colostrum now? Would there be a benefit?

 

[Roll farms]

Babies can't absorb the antibodies from colostrum past 24-36 hrs, studies have shown.

There is an injectable immunity booster called, "Bovi Sera" available through Jeffer's Livestock....Caprine Supply or Hoegger's recommends it as well, though we've never used it.
I bought some, I just never used it...

From the other side of the 'baby yanker' coin....I yank 40 or so kids a year, and they do as well or better than dam-reared kids and I very very rarely lose any - to being squished, rejected, too hot, too cold, bad udders, bad moms, etc.

With a few kids it's very easy to imprint them and spend enough time making them tame, esp. if the dam is tame.

If you have wild does, even if kids are handled daily at first, they usually revert to the dam's 'wild ways' as they get older and observe mom run from you.

With a large-ish herd, bottle feeding is the best / easiest way for us to A) ensure the kids get everything they need and B)that kids are friendly.

There's an art to any livestock husbandry, baby-raising is just another art form....practice and good sanitation help a lot.

To each their own.

 

[Pixie Dust]

There is no doubt that there is a vast difference between backyard herds and a large operation. I certainly meant no disrespect to anyone's practices. Only relating my experience with my backyard herd on the backyard herds forum raising teeny tiny little dwarf goats. If I had a large operation, or a meat operation I would do as you do as well. There would be no other way But IMO, there is nothing more amazing than watching a mother doe care for her young. My goats are really pets more than anything else. They live like queens. Even have their own I touch playing music. They love Frank Sinatra and old standards

Sorry if I sounded offensive.

 

[ksalvagno]

I dam raise but will bottle feed when necessary. I really don't see a difference with bottle babies or dam raised. If you properly bottle raise, it should be the same. I would bet that your girl got colostrum. She just got it in a bottle instead of a teat. Every goat is going to be different as far as immunity and all.

Keep in mind that if your goats are living in the same space all the time, they will also continue to "infect" the area. It has been proven in studies that animals left on the same space year after year that the land will get more and more "infected" with parasites. Land needs time to rest. Of course most people, even in the country, only have 1 area for their animals. So parasites will be more prevelant as time goes on. If there is any way for you to do the intensive grazing method, maybe that would help if you could do that for a year or two.

 

[Pixie Dust]

Hi Karen!

Yes, the thought haunts me.... no pastures to rotate, but I have a plan! Tell me if this is stupid -

1. Relocate or kill the groundhog.
2. Put out squirrel feeders above goat reach with pelleted wormer in the feed
3. Capture and relocate all raccoons ( 30 this year alone, legally re-homed to a wildlife sanctuary) Same goes for Oppossums, but they get to meet their maker, evil scary things.
4. Creation of a new area for them- about 1.5 acres free of any threats - going to remove the existing groundcover, treat the ground with a 10:1 ammonia solution, deep roto till with agricultural lime and re-seed with timothy grass which will be treated with barn lime and de on a regular basis. Lawn vacum pellets every other day. Grass will be kept at a minimum of 4' tall. We have a border of wild honeysuckle that also sustains them for true forage during the summer.
5. New shed with a raised tenderfoot type floor where the pellets will drop through into a collection tray. Manure will be composted. Manure is currently composted, but it falls into their bedding currently - not a fan of that although I change it weekly.
6. Move the chickens to a 13' tractor, add a couple of guinea fowl and rotate the tractor at least once per week.
7. Treat with coccidia prevention at the first sign of less than brilliantly pink eyelids ( been advised this is good practice, not sure its the perfect solution.) Worm per fecal results, although we have been worm free per fecals for almost two years.
8. Take some essential non credit large animal veterinary classes.

I've had the goats for coming up on two years. There were no domestic animals kept here for at least ten years prior. The cocci have to be coming from wildlife.

6. Find a farm near Lexington and move within two years maximum. Have four goat pastures. to rotate , open an dairy, raise ostriches and bison.

Poo update: Berries almost normal Thank you so much to everyone for all the help! I wish I could find a way to repay you!

 

[goodolboy]

A LGD will get rid of all those unwanted critters.

 

[ksalvagno]

1. Relocate or kill the groundhog.

I would just kill the groundhog

2. Put out squirrel feeders above goat reach with pelleted wormer in the feed

What are you deworming with this? It really won't help. Just having the animals continuously on the ground continues to contaminate the ground.

3. Capture and relocate all raccoons ( 30 this year alone, legally re-homed to a wildlife sanctuary) Same goes for Oppossums, but they get to meet their maker, evil scary things.

Personally I would be killing raccoons but removing that kind of stuff is great for your chickens.

4. Creation of a new area for them- about 1.5 acres free of any threats - going to remove the existing groundcover, treat the ground with a 10:1 ammonia solution, deep roto till with agricultural lime and re-seed with timothy grass which will be treated with barn lime and de on a regular basis. Lawn vacum pellets every other day. Grass will be kept at a minimum of 4' tall. We have a border of wild honeysuckle that also sustains them for true forage during the summer.

Goats are browers more so than grazers so you could probably leave it the way it is unless there are poisonous plants in there. If no livestock has been on this land, you really don't have to do all of that.

5. New shed with a raised tenderfoot type floor where the pellets will drop through into a collection tray. Manure will be composted. Manure is currently composted, but it falls into their bedding currently - not a fan of that although I change it weekly.

That would be nice!

6. Move the chickens to a 13' tractor, add a couple of guinea fowl and rotate the tractor at least once per week.
7. Treat with coccidia prevention at the first sign of less than brilliantly pink eyelids ( been advised this is good practice, not sure its the perfect solution.) Worm per fecal results, although we have been worm free per fecals for almost two years.

Barberpole worm has more to do with eyelid color than coccidia. I would have a fecal done before you are treating for coccidia. If you question the vet, then send into the state lab.

8. Take some essential non credit large animal veterinary classes.

There are usually sheep seminars offered through OSU. I would go to their website and look for classes. This is an excellent idea. I have taken some great seminars through OSU.

I've had the goats for coming up on two years. There were no domestic animals kept here for at least ten years prior. The cocci have to be coming from wildlife.

Cocci is species specific. Cocci lives in the gut of all animals including you. There is no way to totally radicate it. It is a matter of controlling enough that the animal can live with it. The goats living on the land 24/7 is what is putting it there. There are some studies that show that on the OSU website.

6. Find a farm near Lexington and move within two years maximum. Have four goat pastures. to rotate , open an dairy, raise ostriches and bison.

Great idea! Good luck with it!

Poo update: Berries almost normal Thank you so much to everyone for all the help! I wish I could find a way to repay you!

Glad poop is getting better. Obviously she needed a different cocci med.

 

[Pixie Dust]

Thanks so much Karen! Great advice!

My vet did say that there are some cocci that are not species specific and that groundhogs and squirrels are major culprits.

OSU? Yikes. That'd be a 2 hour drive. Looking into UC (University of Cincinnatii). I live five minutes from UC

How would you kill the raccoons, opossum and ground hog? Technically speaking, it is illegal to shoot a firearm in city limits. I guess I could buy a silencer? LOL.

Regarding barberpole worm- didn't see any in the fecals, neither did two vets. Is it possible that cocci can cause anemia? Her lids were pretty light pink as the scours started....Wouldn't the Equimax have knocked out the barberpoles? She had been treated with Equimax, 1.5 cc's at day one, ten, twenty and thirty prior to the scours starting.

Pix is now assuming the stance of a show goat. No hunching. Looking very dairy. First time since I've had her.

Well, have a happy and splendid Saturday night... and thank you and everyone again so much!

 

[ksalvagno]

If coccidia is bad, it could. But it can take a long time for eyelids to look pink again. But it sounds like Pixie is on the road to recovery now.

OSU is the one with the vet school. U of C doesn't. But the state lab has nothing to do with OSU. I think they are in Reynoldsburg. I'm talking about the actual state vet lab.

While you are learning how to read fecals, I would also send in a sample from the same stool sample you are looking at to the state lab so that you can compare and learn.